New evidence for the Arkenstone-Silmaril case

[Morthoron]

Simply put, on a number of occasions a Simaril is referred to as a "holy jewel", and burns the hands of those who, shall we say, are not worthy of handling it. I would be hard put to find a reason for Thorin, ultimately a very greedy dwarf, being worthy of holding a Silmaril.

In addition, Maglor and Maedhros rid themselves of their Silmarils along the shores of the Belegaer, not eastward over two mountain ranges and several hundred miles inland near Erebor; therefore, it really is nonsensical to even have this discussion. Silmarils do not have the ability to fly, which is what would be required to support such a hypothesis.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

In addition, Maglor and Maedhros rid themselves of their Silmarils along the shores of the Belegaer, not eastward over two mountain ranges and several hundred miles inland near Erebor; therefore, it really is nonsensical to even have this discussion. Silmarils do not have the ability to fly, which is what would be required to support such a hypothesis.

Just to play devil's advocate...
If the Silmaril really did get carried by magma, couldn't it easily get carried by the convection currents in the mantle? (If we assume that Middle Earth at that point worked in the same way that our world does.)

[Findegil]

If the Silmaril really did get carried by magma, couldn't it easily get carried by the convection currents in the mantle?

Especially if we consider that at the same time Beleriand was sinking very rapidly which for sure did create very turbulent movements underneath.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[Nerwen]

I'm sorry, but that's just another example of what I'm talking about, and has already been suggested– in fact as I understand it, the "Silmaril-Arkenstone" theory assumes something of the kind. Again that's what's wrong with it– it rests on a whole series of improbabilities.

Let's just examine the whole case, shall we?

*If the Silmaril got carried hundreds of miles beneath the Earth's crust to Erebor

and

*if it somehow became completely coated with "lesser gems" in the process

and

*if this took place *really quickly*, between the War of Wrath and whenever Erebor became inactive (which can't have been long afterwards and was just as likely earlier)

and

*if the dwarves, despite being master craftsmen, somehow failed to recognise they were dealing with a cut stone, even while they were shaping it themselves...

...you see the problem?

[skip spence]

I'm with Nerwen here, it's highly unlikely that the Arkenstone is meant to be one of the Silmarils.

That said, there are sure lots of similarities between the two gems and they are hardly coincidental. Tolkien probably had the Silmarils in mind when he described the Arkenstone - he of course created the backstory of the Silmarillion long before he ever thought of Hobbits - and recycled that particular idea (a beautiful, radiant gem-stone that stirs up greed despite it's pure origins) for his new children's book, among many other recycled ideas from the Silmarillion, a work he probably never thought would see the inside of a printing press anyway.

[Badenov]

Originally Posted by skip spence

I'm with Nerwen here, it's highly unlikely that the Arkenstone is meant to be one of the Silmarils.

That said, there are sure lots of similarities between the two gems and they are hardly coincidental. Tolkien probably had the Silmarils in mind when he described the Arkenstone - he of course created the backstory of the Silmarillion long before he ever thought of Hobbits - and recycled that particular idea (a beautiful, radiant gem-stone that stirs up greed despite it's pure origins) for his new children's book, among many other recycled ideas from the Silmarillion, a work he probably never thought would see the inside of a printing press anyway.

Based on facts, I agree with you. But there is a part of me that says in the face of logic that Prof. T was never that freewheeling with his subjects, there has to be something there.

But in that line of thinking, if there was any connection, however remote, some footnote would find the light of day. The conclusion that remains, is that there is no connection whatsoever and that the subjects are so remote and disparate that Prof T wasn't thinking about the Silmarils at all when describing the Arkenstone.

Or ... the idea that the Arkenstone was related to the Silmarils in whichever way (it was one, was related to one, reminded someone of one, they were glowy), he felt, would overshadow even the importance of the One Ring, and in any event would take quite a lot of pages for the backstory to explain what one of these Holy Jewels was.

On a side note, in rereading Silmarillion, in Of the Flight of the Noldor, Morogoth holds all 3 Silmarils in a crystal casket in one hand. So they're not the size of apples unless he has really huge hands. Which I suppose he could have, if he wanted. But I'm reimagining them the size of marbles now.