A Measure of Success

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by mark

...that is not the statement of a man obsessed with power

And that is not the statement I quoted. I thanked Mithadan more than once for opening up to/taking part in this discussion. I really do appreciate that. But his attitude as it *seems to me* is that of 'you may amuse me for the time being' or 'you're on the chopping block now -- you started it, you better finish it right.' (And by this I don't mean me personally. I didn't take it *personally*; it seems directed at everyone.) I understand that no one, admin or mod, as to change anything or even listen to complaints. But I thought he was being antagonistic to the members involved and not just the discussion. I'm sorry, I just wanted a discussion, too. Apparently I'm the only one who's reading things that way, I guess I'm crazy. Which is usually quite possible. (Some edits here to clarify, maybe?)

So some of the questions I haven't answered (if that's how we're going to do it)

One thing I would like to see is a requirement that a member participate in at least a game or two here before he or she can open a game on their own.

A game, maybe. The problem is that's something that's easier to grandfather in once you have a bunch of players. We don't really have a bunch.

It strikes me that retaining "veto" power would be more potentially embarrassing and annoying to a game facilitator/owner than some sort of simplified proposal process.

That depends on if the role of the moderator will be to determine if a game breaks the RULES, or if it will also be their role to determine if the game is "good enough" based on whatever standards. If someone breaks the rules, they get contacted and things get deleted/edited/whatever else. That's how it works on every other forum.

Do we set a limit on numbers of games running, at least until we understand how many gamers we have or do we trust the members to hash things out and if so how will this happen?

I don't see the need. If you need to have rules and guidelines to babysit everyone, to make sure they don't overextend themselves...well that's going to be a lot of rules. Maybe put suggestions in the rules that players not participate in too many games at once. And encourage new players to join active games -- which means of course making it easy for games to be joined. That's really the big problem with the 'game' system rather than an open world setup (which granted only really seems to work when it's a forum dedicated entirely to RP)...it's hard to make it easy for new people to just jump in at any time.

And do we want Mod approval before starting a game or not? If a proposal is being discussed openly in a forum, realistically, how much extra work is it for someone to send PIO or whoever a PM and say "Take a look at this..."

I think it's funny that everyone's taken the "let people start their own games" and turned it into a group approval process. A game is posted. People decide whether or not they are interested, and if so, they join and/or discuss ideas with the game initiator. If the game breaks any rules, it gets removed. That's how I see it. It's not about approval or not. The game is started; if there's something wrong with it, the mod(s) step in as necessary.

And Form's questions...

1. Do you think the Downs should move to having 2 forums? (If no, how many?)

One RP forum, one discussion forum.

2. Should game proposals be run by the Mods first? (If yes, to what extent?)

Nah. Why not moderate on the front end rather than the back end.

3. Should we have (a)sub-forum(s) for brainstorming/discussion?

See #1.

Should the Inns continue in the future in their current form?

Well there's no reason to get rid of them, but we need new inns/the inns to change to be more welcoming to newcomers. They (or it) need(s) to be less plot-oriented.

Should games be deleted/moved/closed after inactivity? After how much inactivity?

Certainly. After a few months? I dunno.

[Mithadan]

I apparently have been less than clear in my intentions. All I want is to improve a forum that has become somewhat run down and shabby. I do not want to dictate from above and certainly am not taking a "this is not a democracy" approach.

Peace out, all. Let's return to being constructive please, so we can bring this bird in for a landing soon...

[piosenniel]

1.) Do you think the Downs should move to having 2 forums? (If no, how many?)

~*~ No ~*~

I can see the RPG Forum as 3 fora.

• The first would be the section where the Thread for general posting guidelines would be put; The Resource Threads from the present Shire and Rohan; the linked indexes for all the old games played in the Shire, Rohan, Gondor, and the new linked index for this new Forum incarnation. Any general announcements that need to be made could also be posted here.
  
  
• The second fora would be the section for any brainstorming/planning threads for new games would go up.
  
  
• The final fora would be the section where the RPG’s and their game-in-play discussion threads would be. I don’t think there needs to be a separation of different sorts of games. This is also where the 2 Inns and their Discussion threads would be – it might be nice to sticky the Inns and their discussion threads to the top of this fora.

2.) Should game proposals be run by the Mods first? If yes, to what extent?

I don’t know what form these proposals are going to take. I suppose if someone had a premise for a game (s)he wasn’t quite sure about, then they could run it past the Moderators first by PM. But, I think if the premise is put out on the brainstorming/planning thread, the Moderators could read along and make suggestions as needed either on the thread, or by PM depending on the tenor of the suggestion(s).

3.) Should we have (a)sub-forum(s) for brainstorming/discussion?

See #1

4.) Should the Inns continue in the future in their current form?

I don’t think we need to change the form of the Scarburg Meadhall. It might be nice, if the Meadhall and the other Inn are moved into the same fora as suggested above, for the Meadhall players to occasionally look into the other Inn and perhaps encourage/mentor a promising player to try their writing skills in the Meadhall.

I think the present Golden Perch Inn works fine as it is. There’s no ongoing plot. Players wander in and out with their characters, interact with other characters, drink, laugh, brood at a corner table . . . We could certainly move to the very abbreviated Character Sketch. I find new players like to think about their characters and get a good grip on them by writing them down. But I’m sure we could come up with a new Inn if that’s the consensus. And one more free-wheeling. Folwren is the Innkeeper at present in the Perch and has agreed to remodel the Perch or open a different sort of Inn as needed.

5.) Should games be deleted/moved/closed after inactivity? After how much inactivity?

Before being closed and moved to Elvenhome (I can’t wrap my mind around actually deleting a game – it just seems wrong.) the gamers should be put on notice that their game has ground to a halt and needs to be restarted. I think 4 weeks of inactivity is long enough to warrant a prod from the Moderators. Gamers can then use the game discussion thread to make some plan to get back on track. In the present Forum structure these periods of inactivity, discussion, and restarts often occur more than 2 or 3 times during the course of a game.

If a game has received a nudge from the Moderators and continues to be inactive for another 4 weeks, then I think it and its discussion thread can be moved to Elvenhome.

Any game in Elvenhome can be resurrected and returned to play if there is enough interest by game facilitator and game players. Though, so far, I haven’t had anyone ask to have the game returned for play.

[Boromir88]

1. Do you think the Downs should move to having 2 forums? (If no, how many?)

No. I think there are reasons to have 3.

My thinking was a little different from pio's and that was to have 1 forum for planning/brain-storming/ideas to help members write and construct characters. Then the "Doriath"forum and "Rivendell" forum.

Although, I think I like pio's idea better. At this point with members and RPGers slowing, there really is no reason to have two separate forums for games. Even if the games will vary between "lesser-control" and "more-control" this is something that should be explained in the planning/discussion threads by the game creator. Then gamers can figure out there whether that is there preferred RPG or not. (Also, there would be no more ground for claiming the system is elitist, with one forum for games of all varities )

2.) Should game proposals be run by the Mods first? If yes, to what extent?

As has been mentioned the planning/brainstorming threads would sort of make "running" a proposal past the forum moderator a formality. I don't know how many would spam pio's PM box with proposals, but if there's a planning/brainstorming forum, the Mods can add their input in the planning threads, as well as any other members. If a proposal is getting hammered out, and developed the game creator and all it's members, I don't see why we'd have to go through the formality of getting a Mod stamp of approval? That's adding unnecessary bureaucracy.


3.) Should we have (a)sub-forum(s) for brainstorming/discussion?

See #1

4.) Should the Inns continue in the future in their current form?

I'm not so much of an inn player. I've tried it once, and due to personal reasons just stopped posting for the character I had created. I wasn't sure how the structure of the Inns worked and whether I could just be like..."ok scrapping this character and I'm a gonna create another one here!" So, that's my winded answer to say, I'll leave the planning of the Inns to those who are, and will, participate more frequently in them.

5.) Should games be deleted/moved/closed after inactivity? After how much inactivity?

I think pio's answer sounds good.

[Firefoot]

I'm not going to specifically answer all the questions because I don't think I would be adding anything new... I just want to say that pio's proposal makes a lot of sense.

I've also been thinking a bit about what Durelin said about wanting to make in-progress games open to players. Maybe one function the discussion forum might serve would be for communication between people inside and outside a game... for example, if someone were to start up a game and decide halfway through they needed a new character, as a cameo or not, they could put an announcement in the discussion forum. Or if a game just wanted to be open to new players throughout its life, that could also be listed somewhere. Or, if a new player was looking for a game to join and none were opening they could post there and open a discussion with current game owners (if we're keeping game owners). I don't know if this would work best as an ongoing thread (maybe stickied) or if it would be better for people to just open up new threads as needed.

[Nogrod]

1. Do you think the Downs should move to having 2 forums? (If no, how many?)
&
3. Should we have (a)sub-forum(s) for brainstorming/discussion?
I'm not sure if having the actual games and the discussion threads concerning them on different forums is a good idea. It would be easier to everyone to have the game X and the discussion thread concerning it on the same forum. So the question would become whether we feel the need to differentiate between the two different kinds of games that has been discussed here - whether they're Doriath and Rivendell, or plot oriented and character oriented, or gameowner driven and player driven games (or what not)?

There is also the question of the kind of "initial inn" and where it should go?

In a way a three-forum model (or one forum & two sub-fora model) could be argued for.

On the "basic forum" there would be all the rules & regulations -stuff, general links to important places (both as sticky-threads I suppose), as well as general discussions about the RP's... and the "starter inn" (Golden Perch) made as easy to enter as possible.

On the (sub/other)forum(s) there would be the games and their discussion threads (the latter which would begin as suggestions for a new game?). If we decide to make two different fora for the actual games then it would be easy. If we decide to put all the RP's into the same thread we probably should come up with an abbreviation as to name the games with an easy pointer as to which kind of game it is so that anyone scrolling the thread would immediately see what kind of a game it is? Like "PRP - Yavanna's Pledge" (meaning "Plot-driven Role Play") and "CRP - Fishers of Lake Rhûn" (meaning "character-driven Role Play") - or whatever.

If we could make it clear the two different game-forums were not hierarchical in status but just different ways of playing I'd strongly suggest we have two different forums for the games (and one for general issues), but if we think there is the danger there leading to an elite-forum and low-forum impressions, then let's make it just one?


2. Should game proposals be run by the Mods first?If yes, to what extent?
I'm not sure there needs to be a requirement for that, but if I was thinking of proposing a game I would really appreciate the feedback from a mod to point out for possible problems or encouraging me with the things she thinks I'm having a good idea on before suggesting the game openly on public...


4. Should the Inns continue in the future in their current form?
Actually, if there would be two separate forums for RP'ing I could see Scarburg Mead Hall as an open game on the "character-driven" / "Rivendell" -forum. And there should be a clear announcement that everyone is welcomed to join the game whenever they wish. For GP see the first answer...

5. Should games be deleted/moved/closed after inactivity? After how much inactivity?
They should, after the "gameowner(s) / players have been notified about the inactivity a few times and nothing happens. A few months maybe?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

1. Do you think the Downs should move to having 2 forums? (If no, how many?)
&
3. Should we have (a)sub-forum(s) for brainstorming/discussion?
I'm not sure if having the actual games and the discussion threads concerning them on different forums is a good idea. It would be easier to everyone to have the game X and the discussion thread concerning it on the same forum.

Well, what I was understanding from pio's idea, is sort of the pre-game planning/brainstorming ideas/game proposals would be for one forum. Then the In-game planning/discussion threads would go in the same forums with the RPGs.