Can the Valar Sentence People to Death? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Galadriel55 · 02-15-2011, 06:19 AM

I don't recall any death penalties. Banishments, curses, imprisonments, other punishments, but not death. Though death can indeed be the consequesne of one of there.

Mithalwen · 02-15-2011, 07:53 AM

It is a slightly odd concept given the nature of Elvish life. If the Valar did such a thing they would in effect be confining them to Mandos for a period until their contemplation of their wrongdoing had brought them to a state of contrition such as they could be permitted to return to life and perhaps make atonement. Presumably the Valar could effect a similar confinement without having to actually execute a death sentence.

The doom of Mandos suggests to me that death is a consequence of their actions rather than a punishment for them.

I wouldn' t like to make assumptions regarding Tolkien's attitude to the death penalty which was still used in England & Wales at the time he wrote LOTR certainly, however Gandalf's words to Frodo about Gollum were a factor settling my feelings on the matter. Certainly though the death penalty exists in Gondor - Faramir says his life will be forfeit for letting Frodo go and the "penalty of old" for Beregond's crimes but they are remitted.

It just doesn't seem a likely scenario to me.

02-15-2011, 06:19 AM	#1
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,519	I don't recall any death penalties. Banishments, curses, imprisonments, other punishments, but not death. Though death can indeed be the consequesne of one of there. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

02-15-2011, 07:53 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	It is a slightly odd concept given the nature of Elvish life. If the Valar did such a thing they would in effect be confining them to Mandos for a period until their contemplation of their wrongdoing had brought them to a state of contrition such as they could be permitted to return to life and perhaps make atonement. Presumably the Valar could effect a similar confinement without having to actually execute a death sentence. The doom of Mandos suggests to me that death is a consequence of their actions rather than a punishment for them. I wouldn' t like to make assumptions regarding Tolkien's attitude to the death penalty which was still used in England & Wales at the time he wrote LOTR certainly, however Gandalf's words to Frodo about Gollum were a factor settling my feelings on the matter. Certainly though the death penalty exists in Gondor - Faramir says his life will be forfeit for letting Frodo go and the "penalty of old" for Beregond's crimes but they are remitted. It just doesn't seem a likely scenario to me. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace