The King's Players - Discussion/Planning Thread

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

I'm fine with starting next Monday, then. Does anyone else want to weigh in?

If Monday means it's permissible to not actually weigh in until Tuesday, then it's perfect. Otherwise, whenever, with the caveat that I'm out of town this weekend (Fri-Mon).

[the phantom]

NAME: Aldarion

AGE/GENDER/RACE/WHERE FROM: 31, Male, Human, Dol Amroth

APPEARANCE: 6'1", lean and fit, dark black hair, blue-grey eyes

HISTORY: Aldarion grew up in Dol Amroth with his family. His father, Galador, was one of Prince Imrahil's captains in the great war, but Aldarion was too young to serve and stayed behind with his mother and older sister. He was always fascinated with performance and history, and at a very early age he got involved with Dol Amroth's fine theater scene.

His first promising role was playing the part of 8-year old Turin in The Swan Players' production of Narn i Chîn Húrin, but Aldarion considers his breakthrough to be playing the teenage Huor a few years later in an ambitious epic chronicling the history of Gondolin. By the time he was twenty Aldarion's status as a career actor was pretty well cemented, and he took every opportunity he could to learn under Gondor's finest actors and playwrights. He was uncertain of which he liked best, and so dreamed of one day both writing and starring in his own works.

When Aldarion was 28, The Swan Players put on a grand production entitled "The Rise and Fall of the Golden King", which told the story of Ar Pharazon's rise to the kingship and the subsequent fall of Numenor. Aldarion won the role of Ar Pharazon, and threw himself fully into his craft, winning great praise from common theater goers and critics as well. The final night of the drama was doubtless the high point of Aldarion's career, as the young actor received multiple curtain calls. His future looked to be brighter than the sun, but.... life doesn't go as planned.

The longtime master of Dol Amroth's royal theater (and primary writer/director for The Swan Players), Lord Imrazôr, retired after the triumph of his great play, and next in line was a man named Erchirion. He was a good writer and director, but he also had an aspiring lead actor as a son- Amlach. Aldarion and Amlach, as well as Amlach's sister Gloredhel, had always been great friends growing up, but Erchirion was not so kind, and did all that he could to diminish Aldarion's stature in The Swan Players and handing all the quality roles to his son. Amlach felt terrible about the situation and even threatened to quit, but Aldarion wouldn't allow his friend to give up his opportunity.

In fact, Aldarion was initially content to take to this change, as he saw within it the possibility of putting an increased amount of time into writing. But before long it was apparent that Erchirion would not let him contribute much in that capacity either.

It was at this time that The King's Players rolled through town. Curious about the group, Aldarion went to attend their show "The Halfling and The Trolls", a tale that the program claimed as a true story told to one of the members by a dwarf of the Lonely Mountain whose relative was present for the ordeal. It was immediately obvious to Aldarion that the tale was either untrue or that some key points had been left out by the dwarf, as the Halfing wasn't small and was gifted with all sorts of ridiculous magical powers- for instance at one point he allowed himself to be swallowed by one of the trolls and then turned himself into unbreakable stone and punched his way out of the troll's stomach, slaying it.

But despite such problems, Aldarion saw some promise in the group. For one, they planned to perform regularly in Minas Tirith, which was curiously devoid of any sort of theater scene. Second, their machine/puppet trolls were quite ingenious (and he heard fantastic things about their fake Smaug), which meant that they had at least one extremely talented engineer type- a must for any company. Third, there was talent there, even in the worst of them- talent that work and training could unlock! But most importantly, they were people who wanted to act who could most definitely use a member such as himself.

Perhaps this was the answer to his dreams! He could rewrite some of their plays, and help them punch up their performances. He could even write brand new plays! Over time they could become a powerhouse in Gondor- perhaps even rival the historic Swan Players! That would really stick it to old Erchirion! And so Aldarion went to speak with the troop manager Brinn, and with his experience he was quickly approved and put to work immediately.

CHARACTER: Aldarion is a decent enough chap, but his success in molding and influencing the rest of the crew has been slower than he initially hoped, and that makes him a bit grumpy at times, particularly when he remembers where he was such a short time ago and where he is now. In his darkest moments he fears he will never attain the heights he once knew, though he tries to keep plugging away, improving old scripts and playing roles here and there as best he can (which is quite good indeed if the role is actually one that allows him to shine- a rarity).

He has piece by piece corrected some of the most awful errors present in the The King's Player's historical plays (for instance, Angmar is no longer portrayed as a parallel dimension reached via portal, Carcharoth is no longer a badger, and Beren and Luthien no longer encounter one-foot high Tumhaden, king of the very-petty dwarves). But for the most part he has not been allowed to greatly alter the Smaug story, nor the War of the Ring tale, partly because in truth Aldarion would not be able to improve upon them greatly, as his knowledge of recent history is not nearly so masterful.

Despite Aldarion's extensive historical knowledge, by no means should he be considered a historical purist. Even the old stories that he knows well- he is more than willing to deviate here and there if he feels he can add some element of psychological drama and/or romance. In fact, though he's oblivious to this fact, he is a little too obsessed with such things- always wishing for every character to be dealing with some complicated issue or another, and always trying to insert love triangles or squares or whatever to "make things more interesting". He also is sure to include multiple fights/duels in every story, one way or another. Besides his stage experience in fight choreography, being the son of a war captain he naturally received a good bit of training through the years, particularly in fencing and sword-fighting which he has always loved. His horsemanship and archery were largely neglected however once he began performing in earnest.

For the most part Aldarion dislikes any sort of comedy- his fellows are forever telling him to loosen up a bit. He also has a great fascination and appreciation for Asta's tech work, and thus when he writes he is always thinking of how he can use her talent for putting together large moving contraptions.

[Anguirel]

excellent, o lean and fit one

I too was wondering when we'd start; I saw Lommy's "five or six years", misunderstood and sort of fell off my perch. But it's just a matter of curiosity for me, all times are equally terrible

I don't suppose anyone wants to play my dashing son or son-in-law yet?

[Thinlómien]

NAME: Sereth (most often called Seri)

AGE/GENDER/RACE/WHERE FROM: 12, female, Gondorian

APPEARANCE: Sereth is 5'3'' tall and of slender built. She has a tan, childish face with a turned-up nose and big brown eyes. Her long hair is black and wavy.

BITS OF CHARACTER/HISTORY YOU FEEL MIGHT BE HELPFUL IN DEFINING THE CHARACTER: Sereth was born the bastard daughter of an actress in a small troupe touring in the countryside around Calembel. She grew up living and breathing the theatre atmosphere, and could never even consider doing anything else in her life than theatre.

Three years ago Sereth's mother and the playwright of the troupe died, and soon after the whole troupe dissolved. Sereth stayed with an old actress called Aelin. After a bit of wandering they came across the King's players and managed to convince Brinn that they'd more help than trouble, and so they stayed. One year ago Aelin returned to Calembel to live with her niece because she had become too old for the travelling life, but Sereth stayed with the King's Players and under Brinn's protective wing.

With the King's Players, Sereth is a helping hand where needed - looking after the costumes and wigs, sewing, cooking, cleaning, collecting money from the audience or guiding them, acting child roles etc. She is resourceful and smart and gets along with most people effortlessly. She is dreaming of the day she can do the female lead role on stage, but her biggest ambition is to become a playwright and a director one day.

[Thinlómien]

Mnemo - tell me if anything needs to be changed.

Ang - I'd love to play your nephew but I know I wouldn't do him justice given that my time is very limited and I already have one character.

[the phantom]

Okay- no one has worked out a rough timeline and roadmap for the formation of The King's Players, have they? (The place and time at which each member joined and where and when they've performed?)

If not- here's a bit of stab at it. Please point out to me anything I'm missing and I'll edit the timeline, or discuss how we can work it out (as I actually found backstories of characters that conflicted with each other and we need to settle on just one version).

F.A. 12-
*The father of Brinn & Asta constructs a second Robo-Smaug for Dale's Feast of the Dragon
F.A. 13-
*Brinn, Rollan, and a few friends put on performances in Laketown, Erebor, and other small villages near Dale
F.A. 14-
*Brinn and Rollan marry
*Asta joins the group
F.A. 15-
*Branor joins the group
*The Players perform for the first time in the Iron Hills and in Thranduil's hall
F.A. 16-
*Therian joins The Players
*The Players cross Mirkwood to perform for the Beornings
F.A. 17-
*The Players make their first visit to Minas Anor
*Amdir joins The Players while they're in Minas Anor
F.A. 18-
*Coldan joins the group in Dale
*The Players visit Minas Anor again, and also perform quite a bit in Lossarnach
F.A. 19-
*Harrenon joins The Players during their third trip to Minas Anor
*The Players hit Lossarnach again, and Lamedon for the first time
*While in Lamedon they are joined by Sereth and Aelin
F.A. 20-
*The Players visit Minas Anor for the fourth straight year
*Aelin leaves the troop
*The Players go to Dol Amroth for the first time and have run-ins with The Swan Players and its members
*Aldarion defects from The Swan Players and travels with the group to tour in Rohan
F.A. 21-
*After performances back home in Dale and for the Beornings and Rohirrim, the group makes their fifth trip to Minas Anor's Cormare celebrations

TYPICAL OR PREFERRED ROLES IN GENERAL
Brinn- minor roles if necessary (manager, props, effects, etc)
Asta- minor roles if necessary (mechanical, costumes, props, etc)
Rollan- comic roles
Branor- major roles, primarily dramatic
Therian- prefers warriors & kings, but always plays ladies
Amdir- minor roles if necessary (set design, construction, etc)
Coldan- minor roles (prompting)
Harrenon- semi-minor roles, usually young
Sereth- child/youth roles
Aldarion- dramatic, tortured soul, romantic lead (playwright)

ROLES IN WAR OF THE RING DRAMA
(Mistakes purposeful- we have some serious correction to make before the performance!)
Brinn- random Hobbits, Orcs, Soldiers, Sorceress of Lothlorien
Asta- Mary the Elf of Rivendell, Gollum the Orc
Rollan- Saruman the dementia suffering wizard, Denethor Steward of Gondor
Branor- Aragorn the returning King of Gondor
Therian- Eowyn, random Orcs, Soldiers
Amdir- Pippin the Hobbit Prince
Coldan- Gimli the Dwarf, Sam the Hobbit servant
Harrenon- Legolas the Elf
Sereth- Frodo the Warrior Hobbit
Aldarion- Boromir prince of Gondor, the evil King Butterbur

[Dimturiel]

I was wondering about something: I imagine the troupe hasn't been performing the same play all this time since it's been founded, right? And if so, is the play being performed for the first time in Minas Anor? And do the actors know already what characters they're suposed to be playing?
The timeline looks good, by the way, but then again maybe I shouldn't be the one to talk since I'm quite aware that I've provided a very sketchy and maybe even a bit unhelpful bio.
Oh, and whenever we decide to start is fine with me, my schedule does not change from week to week

[Anguirel]

actually I've had a thought that requires a deal with the Force of Darkness himself...phantom, could Amlach, your friend and professional rival, be married to Cirdacil's daughter?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

F.A. 15-
*Branor joins the group
*The Players perform for the first time in the Iron Hills and in Thranduil's hall

Although it is often difficult to tell where the early Mnemonic scholar (dubbed "the phantom" in popular contemporary accounts) gets his information, his reconstruction of the Dale King's Players performance history gives us a rare glimpse into his sources, a fascinating suggestion of the dramatisation that surrounded dramatists themselves in the early 4th Age.

More recent scholars have debated the possibility that the Dale King's Players ever performed in the Iron Hills, as no Dwarven manuscript from the 3rd Age or the first five centuries of the 4th ever attests to dramatic performances being held in Dwarven environs*. However, the majority of scholars think it is quite possible that the Dale King's Players would have played in the Iron Hills, since their is ample evidence of close collaboration with the Dwarves of Erebor in their early years. Dwarven craft is universally held to be the source of the Players' "Smaug" and other early mechanical effects, and the close, even symbiotic relationship of the Dwarf-realm to the Mannish realm of Dale is well-attested, and has parallels throughout Dwarven history**. Given that the Iron Hills were a major centre of Dwarven activity (the chief settlement of Longbeards at that time outside Erebor itself), and probably had its own closely related Mannish ally in kinfolk of the Dalemen who dwelt farther down the Carnen (perhaps also related to the little-studied Kingdom of Dorwinion), it seems that the Iron Hills would have been a logical first place to travel away from Dale.

Greenwood the Great, however, is another case, and although a few scholars believe "the phantom's" chronology in this respect, comparison with other historical records suggests that this is highly unlikely. Although the Red Book indicates there was trade between Thranduil's people and the Lakemen, this trade does not seem to have extended to full-fledged cultural cross-pollination. Indeed, apart from venturing out in the hopes of claiming Smaug's treasures, a situation that led to the Elvish presence at the Battle of Five Armies, we do not see the Elves of Greenwood taking an a strong interest in the doings of the Men of Dale. During the War of the Ring, Thranduil's people were focused on the threat of Dol Guldûr, while the Men of Dale, together with the Longbeards of Erebor, faced invasion from Easterlings.

Furthermore, apart from a temporary situation in Gondor, where Legolas son of Thranduil started a short-lived colony in Ithilien, little about the early 4th Age suggests that the millennia-long situation of Elves and Men having less to do with each other as the years passed ever changed. While the Elves of Rivendell, the last Noldorin presence in Middle-earth, were open and welcoming, and indeed closely partnered with their local Mannish communities (the Rangers of Arthedain, and to a lesser extent the Woodmen and Beornings over the mountains), this model was not as true of the Sindar/Nandorin-dominant communities of the Grey Havens, and certainly not in the Sindar/Sylvan communities (which also seem to have had strong Avarin influences) of Lórien and Greenwood (although it is to be admitted that Greenwood was less closed off than Lórien, nonetheless that was the model Thranduil's realm followed).

Furthermore, the close relationship of Dale and Erebor makes it even more unlikely that Men of Dale would have been visiting Thranduil's halls. Although relationships between the Elves and Dwarves were not marked with quarrels in the known accounts of the 4th Age, the historic grudges borne between these two peoples would still have been present, and even the stellar example of Legolas son of Thranduil and Gimli son of Glóin would not have reversed this aversion completely--indeed, it is noteworthy that both these personages moved with colonies to lands far beyond the influence of Erebor and Greenwood.

What is most likely, according to F. Ormen Dacil, is that "the phantom" derives his information about the Dale King's Players performing in Greenwood from the promotional literature being put out in their later career in Gondor (about the time that Andarion of Dol Amroth joined their company--approx. F.A. 20). Since this promotional literature was produced for a Gondorian audience, it was most likely composed by a newer member native to Gondor, who would not have been present in the earlier travels. In promoting the Players as a respectable troupe, it is possible that their résumé was padded by suggesting more kings and courts before whom they had played. In reconstructing his chronology, "the phantom" probably used near-contemporary accounts derived from this promotional, but exaggerated literature, offering us a fascinating glimpse into the "no holds barred," competitive world of drama in early 4th Age Gondor.




* Actually, recent excavations in Moria may suggest otherwise, as tombs previously believed to belong to 2nd Age Dwarven dramatists connected with the Elven kingdom of Eregion (where the theatrical arts flourished best in western Middle-earth in the 2nd Age) may include later burials from the Guild of Playwrights--as late as the first couple centuries of the 3rd Age. However, this is not pertinent to turn-of-the-4th Age discussions of the Iron Hills.

**Cf. the essay "Of Dwarves and Men," by pre-eminent scholar J.R.R. Tolkien (HoME XII, The Peoples of Middle-earth).

[the phantom]

Form- I can understand why seventh age scholars would reach that conclusion only having a single line to work with ("The Players perform for the first time in the Iron Hills and in Thranduil's hall"). But the troop has a story behind the performance that they tell....

Aldarion only heard the tale once, but later in his memoirs he could still remember the gist of it. There was a group of Elves down in Laketown to discuss some details of river trade and the like when The King's Players rolled through to perform their Smaug drama. When they heard some Elves would be in attendance they seized the opportunity and enlarged the part of Thranduil to epic proportions. The Elves naturally knew it was complete bunk (especially the bit where Thranduil rode upon Smaug's head), but it amused them somewhat, and they thought that their lord would be especially tickled by the performance, and so their leader extended an invitation to the troop to come and perform at the upcoming Autumn festival.

Now, the reception their performance(s) received in Mirkwood is certainly debatable (note that they never performed there again), but the discovery of Aldarion's writings surely adds some amount of believability to the claim.

Originally Posted by Dim

And do the actors know already what characters they're suposed to be playing?

That's something we'll need to settle soon. But first we need to be certain about who all is actually acting in this troop. These are the ones I know about-
Brinn, Asta, Rollan, Branor, Therian, Amdir, Harrenon, Sereth, Aldarion

Are there any other actors/actresses that have been introduced that I missed? Are there going to be any more (more Downers joining that you know of) or do we need to have more (create some members to be controlled by those already playing)?

Originally Posted by Ang

Phantom, could Amlach, your friend and professional rival, be married to Cirdacil's daughter?

Well, I don't see why not. He's the same age as me, he's from Dol Amroth, his father is the director/manager of The Swan Players, and his sister is also a member. So long as that all fits, go ahead.