The King's Players - Discussion/Planning Thread

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

F.A. 15-
*Branor joins the group
*The Players perform for the first time in the Iron Hills and in Thranduil's hall

Although it is often difficult to tell where the early Mnemonic scholar (dubbed "the phantom" in popular contemporary accounts) gets his information, his reconstruction of the Dale King's Players performance history gives us a rare glimpse into his sources, a fascinating suggestion of the dramatisation that surrounded dramatists themselves in the early 4th Age.

More recent scholars have debated the possibility that the Dale King's Players ever performed in the Iron Hills, as no Dwarven manuscript from the 3rd Age or the first five centuries of the 4th ever attests to dramatic performances being held in Dwarven environs*. However, the majority of scholars think it is quite possible that the Dale King's Players would have played in the Iron Hills, since their is ample evidence of close collaboration with the Dwarves of Erebor in their early years. Dwarven craft is universally held to be the source of the Players' "Smaug" and other early mechanical effects, and the close, even symbiotic relationship of the Dwarf-realm to the Mannish realm of Dale is well-attested, and has parallels throughout Dwarven history**. Given that the Iron Hills were a major centre of Dwarven activity (the chief settlement of Longbeards at that time outside Erebor itself), and probably had its own closely related Mannish ally in kinfolk of the Dalemen who dwelt farther down the Carnen (perhaps also related to the little-studied Kingdom of Dorwinion), it seems that the Iron Hills would have been a logical first place to travel away from Dale.

Greenwood the Great, however, is another case, and although a few scholars believe "the phantom's" chronology in this respect, comparison with other historical records suggests that this is highly unlikely. Although the Red Book indicates there was trade between Thranduil's people and the Lakemen, this trade does not seem to have extended to full-fledged cultural cross-pollination. Indeed, apart from venturing out in the hopes of claiming Smaug's treasures, a situation that led to the Elvish presence at the Battle of Five Armies, we do not see the Elves of Greenwood taking an a strong interest in the doings of the Men of Dale. During the War of the Ring, Thranduil's people were focused on the threat of Dol Guldûr, while the Men of Dale, together with the Longbeards of Erebor, faced invasion from Easterlings.

Furthermore, apart from a temporary situation in Gondor, where Legolas son of Thranduil started a short-lived colony in Ithilien, little about the early 4th Age suggests that the millennia-long situation of Elves and Men having less to do with each other as the years passed ever changed. While the Elves of Rivendell, the last Noldorin presence in Middle-earth, were open and welcoming, and indeed closely partnered with their local Mannish communities (the Rangers of Arthedain, and to a lesser extent the Woodmen and Beornings over the mountains), this model was not as true of the Sindar/Nandorin-dominant communities of the Grey Havens, and certainly not in the Sindar/Sylvan communities (which also seem to have had strong Avarin influences) of Lórien and Greenwood (although it is to be admitted that Greenwood was less closed off than Lórien, nonetheless that was the model Thranduil's realm followed).

Furthermore, the close relationship of Dale and Erebor makes it even more unlikely that Men of Dale would have been visiting Thranduil's halls. Although relationships between the Elves and Dwarves were not marked with quarrels in the known accounts of the 4th Age, the historic grudges borne between these two peoples would still have been present, and even the stellar example of Legolas son of Thranduil and Gimli son of Glóin would not have reversed this aversion completely--indeed, it is noteworthy that both these personages moved with colonies to lands far beyond the influence of Erebor and Greenwood.

What is most likely, according to F. Ormen Dacil, is that "the phantom" derives his information about the Dale King's Players performing in Greenwood from the promotional literature being put out in their later career in Gondor (about the time that Andarion of Dol Amroth joined their company--approx. F.A. 20). Since this promotional literature was produced for a Gondorian audience, it was most likely composed by a newer member native to Gondor, who would not have been present in the earlier travels. In promoting the Players as a respectable troupe, it is possible that their résumé was padded by suggesting more kings and courts before whom they had played. In reconstructing his chronology, "the phantom" probably used near-contemporary accounts derived from this promotional, but exaggerated literature, offering us a fascinating glimpse into the "no holds barred," competitive world of drama in early 4th Age Gondor.




* Actually, recent excavations in Moria may suggest otherwise, as tombs previously believed to belong to 2nd Age Dwarven dramatists connected with the Elven kingdom of Eregion (where the theatrical arts flourished best in western Middle-earth in the 2nd Age) may include later burials from the Guild of Playwrights--as late as the first couple centuries of the 3rd Age. However, this is not pertinent to turn-of-the-4th Age discussions of the Iron Hills.

**Cf. the essay "Of Dwarves and Men," by pre-eminent scholar J.R.R. Tolkien (HoME XII, The Peoples of Middle-earth).

[the phantom]

Form- I can understand why seventh age scholars would reach that conclusion only having a single line to work with ("The Players perform for the first time in the Iron Hills and in Thranduil's hall"). But the troop has a story behind the performance that they tell....

Aldarion only heard the tale once, but later in his memoirs he could still remember the gist of it. There was a group of Elves down in Laketown to discuss some details of river trade and the like when The King's Players rolled through to perform their Smaug drama. When they heard some Elves would be in attendance they seized the opportunity and enlarged the part of Thranduil to epic proportions. The Elves naturally knew it was complete bunk (especially the bit where Thranduil rode upon Smaug's head), but it amused them somewhat, and they thought that their lord would be especially tickled by the performance, and so their leader extended an invitation to the troop to come and perform at the upcoming Autumn festival.

Now, the reception their performance(s) received in Mirkwood is certainly debatable (note that they never performed there again), but the discovery of Aldarion's writings surely adds some amount of believability to the claim.

Originally Posted by Dim

And do the actors know already what characters they're suposed to be playing?

That's something we'll need to settle soon. But first we need to be certain about who all is actually acting in this troop. These are the ones I know about-
Brinn, Asta, Rollan, Branor, Therian, Amdir, Harrenon, Sereth, Aldarion

Are there any other actors/actresses that have been introduced that I missed? Are there going to be any more (more Downers joining that you know of) or do we need to have more (create some members to be controlled by those already playing)?

Originally Posted by Ang

Phantom, could Amlach, your friend and professional rival, be married to Cirdacil's daughter?

Well, I don't see why not. He's the same age as me, he's from Dol Amroth, his father is the director/manager of The Swan Players, and his sister is also a member. So long as that all fits, go ahead.

[the phantom]

Okay, I made a couple of changes to this post. I now have included a list of the known players and their typical type of role and the role they currently own in the LotR drama. I'd say we could perhaps use a couple more players (either real Downer controlled ones or side ones controlled by one of us, such as Brinn's husband controlled by Mnemo).

Just like with the timeline, please tell me if my label of your character just doesn't work.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Therian actually would rather have almost any role but that of a warrior woman. His ideal role is Theoden, so under preferred roles, maybe 'kings and famous warriors'? And perhaps the reason why he's saddled with Eowyn's part is because in some way he irritated the playwright a few too many times?

[the phantom]

Well then, I would say that Therian should definitely have a word with Aldarion then, because he's under the impression that warrior women is Therian's preferred role seeing as when he joined the group Therian was cast as such in nearly every play Aldarion took to edit.

Hmmmm.... Perhaps Therian's attitude towards women in theater led to Brinn and Asta purposefully putting him as a woman in all the plays? So if you go around their backs and try to get Aldarion to rewrite you... Suppose that would cause problems? We can always find out.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well then, I would say that Therian should definitely have a word with Aldarion then, because he's under the impression that warrior women is Therian's preferred role seeing as when he joined the group Therian was cast as such in nearly every play Aldarion took to edit.

Hmmmm.... Perhaps Therian's attitude towards women in theater led to Brinn and Asta purposefully putting him as a woman in all the plays? So if you go around their backs and try to get Aldarion to rewrite you... Suppose that would cause problems? We can always find out.

We can indeed...

[Mnemosyne]

the phantom, thanks for your timeline. Formendacil, thanks for your exegesis. Everyone, thanks for your feedback.

Due to the feedback on a starting date, and due to my own busy-ness on that Monday--

The King's Players will be starting on Tuesday, March 8.

That gives us five days to work up our wrong script to whatever level of detail we want, and, more importantly, decide whether we're playing in real-time or half-time. I need people's thoughts on this matter so that we can come to some kind of a consensus.

What I am thinking for the first two days of in-game time:

Day One: The Players arrive in Minas Tirith. We learn that the pheriannath are present. One of the party (who?) encounters Elanor (or if someone wants it to be Sam or Rose, that'll work, too) during the day. During the night, we do a dry-run rehearsal of the War of the Ring play.

Day Two: Early in the morning, a messenger shows up letting us know that the Court is attending our performance on Cormare. The Plot develops from there.