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#1 | ||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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#2 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 145
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The "People" of Thingol were, generally, the people he ruled - ie: The Sindar. Luthien was a special case, arguably a UNIQUE case. If she happened to be a (maybe the Single) exception to the statement, a Philologist like Tolkien would not have felt the need to convert his statement into a legally and logically rigorous, iron-clad contractual declaration. His point that Thingol was seen as different from his people (due to having seen the Trees) remains true - whether Luthien was an exception or not. In Luthien's case, being the daughter of a Maia and a Caliquendi could have included her in the Elves-of-Light designation. But, even if not, it doesn't reduce who she was. As far as Descendents are concerned, I'm not so sure that descendents of Caliquendi aren't also considered Caliquendi - is it said anywhere that (for ex) Erenion Gil-galad was not a Caliquendi (being son of Fingon)?? |
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#3 | |||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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#4 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,480
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I don't understand one thing. How does Legolas' heritage affect his departal from ME? He doesn't need to be one of the Eldar to leave, or to hear the call of the Sea (speaking of that one, Men also hear it, so why can's moriquendi?).
His background wasn't finished (according to the Enc. of Arda, there are two versions - one that says Oropher is a Sinda who came from across the River, and another that he was a Silvan Elf), so there's no point in trying to prove any story. ![]()
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#5 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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#6 | ||
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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As for why Legolas didn't set sail earlier, I agree that he most probably tarried for the sake of his companions from the Fellowship. The first thing coming to my mind here was this dialogue: Quote:
Thanks by the way to Ang for eloquently restoring the original image of Tolkien's Legolas, which I must admit had been eclipsed in my mind by PJ's shield-surfing superhero for a while. As for Galadriel's warning of death, I read Leggy's words to Gimli ("Would you have her speak openly to you of your death?") just the same way the first time around and didn't really get where that came from; only at the second or third reading did it occur to me that he must have been referring to the Lady's message to Aragorn about the Paths of the Dead, and not to his own at all.
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#7 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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If every letter necessarily shapes one's Middle-earth that is ![]() In a late text, JRRT has Amroth note to Nimrodel (a Silvan Elf) that the way is open to all those Elves who took up the Great March even if they did not reach the shores of the Sea, but from The Lord of the Rings itself we already knew that the East-elves of Lorien could pass Oversea, or at least that they are (generally) said to. Edit: here's the Amroth quote: 'It is said that the grace that the Valar gave to us to pass over the Sea is granted also now to any of those who made the Great Journey, even if they did not come in ages past to the shores and have not yet beheld the Blessed Land.' What does this imply, if anything, about those who initially refused the Great Journey? Last edited by Galin; 06-13-2011 at 09:00 AM. |
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#8 | |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom
Posts: 273
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The Elves of Amman and Singolo's people had the same language in the begining but when the Noldor returned tto ME, Singolo had become Thingol. The languages had changed so much that communication between the two groups was very difficult. The Noldor had to learn Sindarin. Just thing of the misunderstanding that can occur between the speakers of British English and American English. . |
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#9 | |||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Tolkien himself might niggle with calling Legolas Sindarin, but I think even he must admit that what he published naturally enough leads one down this path. The Oropher example is a good one: here I think the natural implication of published text is that Thranduil (not Oropher) established his kingdom in the Second Age before the building of Barad-dur -- or at least early enough in the Second Age. Of course people can (and will) correct that based on Tolkien's private (and relatively brief) notes on the movements of some Elf named Oropher, who doesn't even get mentioned in Appendix B, but in my opinion such a 'correction' comes with a little asterisk at least, or should. Quote:
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Again, did JRRT recall the 'implication' in Appendix B when he tested the Orophorian waters here? and if he did not, once having done so (in theory) would he necessarily try to add Oropher? Perhaps... he certainly could characterize Appendix B as extremely contracted history and wedge in Oropher... but one never knows. But I digress ![]() |
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