WW LXXXIX: The Terror of Tol Fuin

[satansaloser2005]

Also, I see where Mith's coming from when she says that asking about the rules can be an attempt to look naive and innocent. I'm not saying that's what's been done here, but I do understand her point (as well as the counterpoint that people with roles must understand the rules to perform well).

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod goes up for thinking more or less exactly the same as me.

Lottie goes down for being so squishy. She seems to have very little to say (well I know this might sound hypocritical but she's been involved for much longer toDay than me!)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I'm here! And I have First Impressions.

Sally is probably my dear sweet cupcake, and I would not like to lynch her toDay at all.

Bom is a dear sweet newish player who, from what little he's posted, sounds like last game when he was innocent. I'd like to leave him be, too.

Galadriel's posts hit me over the head a little like a baby fish, but it's her first game ever, so she gets a newbie pass out of the category of "say what now".

Kit's post I saw and instantly "whaaaaaaat"ed because I forgot she was playing in this game. But I don't know how to read her yet, I just wanted to mention that.

The rest of you I've got no real impressions on yet. More noise-making, please!

Edit: Xed with two Sallys

I would second what Lommy said: What kind of impressions is that? Noting one person who was discussed this far the most (also with very thoughtful words; thanks, if you keep using such a deep and thoughtful reasoning, I might soon get lost in all the complicated definitions you make), two newbies to say that they are newbies, and one person who had been the "voice of suspicion" a bit on this thread, while concluding that there isn't much to say in the end.

Lottie might be just as well my first possibility for a vote - I mean, really, this is coming and saying nothing. More commitment would be nice in any case, anyway.

Lommy seems like nothing wrong this far, maybe except for these two:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Kitanna - for once, I don't quite get where all the Kitanna-suspicion is coming from. I don't necessarily agree with everything she says, but she seems sensible enough. I wouldn't like to lynch her toDay - it would be a poor thanks for beasically keep the discussion going on toDay.

(...)

Sally - well, I can't see why she has been made such a fuss of toDay. I'm more inclined to think she's innocent than not (I seem to recall she only makes such a show of her innocence when she's innocent) but of course this is not foolproof reasoning.

Just so that the first one sounds a bit like bloodthirsty "let's keep her around, she will continue making a fuss and people will be getting lynched" and the second could also be a "I don't suspect her... but if you lynch her, I don't mind" - however that's the worst possible interpretation, and in general I don't think she sounds like having evil intentions in truth.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, I see where Mith's coming from when she says that asking about the rules can be an attempt to look naive and innocent. I'm not saying that's what's been done here, but I do understand her point (as well as the counterpoint that people with roles must understand the rules to perform well).

Is that a postscriptum of something you didn't manage to write in your previous post and remembered later that you should say it, or what is the reason of you posting this? (Separately?) Just askin'.

EDIT: x-ed after Kit's vote.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Compassion gets you nowhere in Werewolf.

And I have nothing better to go on, even after another read-through...yeah, yeah, but I'll still feel sorry for her if she's lynched her first Day ever.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You failed to notice (or purposely ignored) the fact that one ordo can make a difference in the outcome simply by being alive.

I rather don't like how she tries to make a simple omission look evil, and with an argumentative tone...it's not like she's wolf-hunting, more like wolf-inventing.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well, maybe I misinterpreted Bom's post, but he seemed to give the message "let's vote for Sally unless there's an obvious wolf, because she might drop out". Doesn't it sound more fishy when put that way?

And here she seems to be trying to on one hand convince us that her earlier posts were reasonable, and on the other continue to further the point she'd made in it. I don't know, I might be wrong on this one, but that's what it looks like to me.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Kit, I see what you mean about Sally being cobblerish - the "center of attention". But she does not sound like a wolf.

This isn't so much a point against her as a question - I thought we didn't have a cobbler. Did I miss something? I could well have - I totally forgot Kit was playing at all, I might have forgotten there was a cobbler, too...

Edit: Xed with Mith

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Is that a postscriptum of something you didn't manage to write in your previous post and remembered later that you should say it, or what is the reason of you posting this? (Separately?) Just askin'.

I remembered that I'd meant to say it before, and had spaced it off. That's all.




Galadriel is actually scarily supportive of me. No, I don't think I'll be voting her toDay, as I still suspect Kit, but it's a bit....no, a lot....suspicious that Galadriel is backing me so strongly. Obviously we're not packmates, but if she's a wolf, it would a good (?) idea for her to try to establish a connection with me. I don't know. I appreciate it, but I'm also wary of her buddying up to me so quickly.


I also wish Bom would come back. I want to know his take on this a bit more before I decide (although as I've said he's certainly not my top pick right now).


EDIT: x'd with Lottie. And no, there's no cobbler, sweetie.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I didn't say otherwise. But she has provided some proper analysis not just lists saying I can't decide about x... and she seems to have had an effect on you. If you were a horse there would be a stewards enquiry after that change of form. Just sayin....

This actually is valid. That makes me also think rather good about Mith, for some reason, it sounds, well, innocentish to phrase it this way as well.

Okay, I don't get Lottie's case for G55. First, I am sure there would be far more better subjects. Second, it seems like diverting suspicion to other corners of the playground.

Originally Posted by Loslote

This isn't so much a point against her as a question - I thought we didn't have a cobbler. Did I miss something? I could well have - I totally forgot Kit was playing at all, I might have forgotten there was a cobbler, too...

I didn't get this part - the first part. Secondly, now that sounds like what Mith called making a show of not knowing the rules. This is the case in which I concur - this is a good example of what I would call making a show of it, not what TomBom did. Hm, I think I know whom I am going to vote, really - Lottie seems really weird here.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I remembered that I'd meant to say it before, and had spaced it off. That's all.

Okay, fine, thanks, just curious.

Originally Posted by sally

Galadriel is actually scarily supportive of me. No, I don't think I'll be voting her toDay, as I still suspect Kit, but it's a bit....no, a lot....suspicious that Galadriel is backing me so strongly. Obviously we're not packmates, but if she's a wolf, it would a good (?) idea for her to try to establish a connection with me. I don't know. I appreciate it, but I'm also wary of her buddying up to me so quickly.

Funny - this is about the first thing I find suspicious about Sally in the way she said something. More like the latter part. I have been many times in the situation of when somebody was backing me up when I was a Wolf, so I know the feeling well (and also many times did the same thing as a Wolf, that I have backed up someone), but saying "I don't like how somebody is backing me up" is also a thing to do when you are a Wolf. I've done that a few times. But anyway, that is a random occurance - like I said, I don't have any other suspicions for sally.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog and Sally

[satansaloser2005]

Legate: I'm actually the opposite. As a wolf, being backed up would make me feel more comfortable, take some of the pressure off. As an innocent, however, I feel as if people support me only to make me the object of their manipulation.

Maybe I'm just paranoid.


x'd with Nog

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Legate: I'm actually the opposite. As a wolf, being backed up would make me feel more comfortable, take some of the pressure off. As an innocent, however, I feel as if people support me only to make me the object of their manipulation.

Maybe I'm just paranoid.


x'd with Nog

You would, of course, say this as a wolf, darling.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

You would, of course, say this as a wolf, darling.

Oh, I totally would. It doesn't make it any less true though.

[Nogrod]

I x'posted with this...

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Galadriel is actually scarily supportive of me. No, I don't think I'll be voting her toDay, as I still suspect Kit, but it's a bit....no, a lot....suspicious that Galadriel is backing me so strongly. Obviously we're not packmates, but if she's a wolf, it would a good (?) idea for her to try to establish a connection with me. I don't know. I appreciate it, but I'm also wary of her buddying up to me so quickly.

Say what you say Sally, but that actually fits what I was saying in my earlier post. If there was a connection between you two and you felt you both were gathering suspicion partly because of it, then you should try to do away with the connection.


Heh...

Originally Posted by Sally

And you've clearly not yet seen the post in which I agree with him about how creepy it is. Do pay attention to what I'm actually saying before you cry wolf, okay, dear?

I had not seen that post of yours (quoted here in my post earlier) at that time, but as you see, I was actually responding to that even before you asked me. And I was making a quite different interpretation of it than the one you offer.

Oh my Sally, have you got lost from the path of the pure-hearted ones? I was not "crying wolf", but I have a feeling you just did it yourself... I was talking about there being parties, not that one of them is guilty.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Heh... I had not seen that post of yours (quoted here in my post earlier) at that time, but as you see, I was actually responding to that even before you asked me.

Heh, heh, heh. I figured you hadn't seen it yet, and couldn't resist the opportunity to give you a (very) hard time. *blows a kiss*

Shasta! Darling! You're back!


x'd with Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, this is rather horrible. Sally had actually managed to make me suspect her in the last several posts she had made, good job from you, sally.

First this post about Eomer - also given the general context, it seems a bit too random, also with the whole summary, as if what a Wolf could do if being suddenly under fire "ugh... I think I'd better avoid talking about myself and talk about something else... let's analyse someone".

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

He seems fine to me, balanced and logical as well as picking up on the humor where people intend for it to be found. While I don't agree with him on Kit, I'm thinking that he's not a wolf, or if so, not a wolf with her. I can't possibly disagree with him on Galadriel because, well, what he says is so true. My hesitation is brought about by her newness and the likelihood that her "guilt" is just newbie mistakes, which is why I am hesitant to follow his vote.

There is rather a lot of flip-flopping and not really saying much in the end. "The person seems fine to me" or "I don't know, maybe it is nothing" is rather Wolf-y stuff, as in, "I am not the one who lynched you" (or alternatively, "I won't lynch my packmates, but I won't speak too loud for their defence either, lest I be judged myself").

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Legate: I'm actually the opposite. As a wolf, being backed up would make me feel more comfortable, take some of the pressure off. As an innocent, however, I feel as if people support me only to make me the object of their manipulation.

Maybe I'm just paranoid.

Of course, that is only what you claim - we have no way to verify it. But I understand.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Heh, heh, heh. I figured you hadn't seen it yet, and couldn't resist the opportunity to give you a (very) hard time. *blows a kiss*

Okay, this is probably the worst. So what, you figured he hadn't seen it and still posted what you did? Makes no sense to me. Didn't sound like it. Sounded like a genuine defence. And now you are relativising the defence - because you were suspected even despite it? I don't really get it.

All in all, if this stuff was meant to save you from suspicion, it managed to do actually the very opposite, thank you very much.

EDIT: x-ed since after the sally post I quote.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

There is rather a lot of flip-flopping and not really saying much in the end. "The person seems fine to me" or "I don't know, maybe it is nothing" is rather Wolf-y stuff, as in, "I am not the one who lynched you" (or alternatively, "I won't lynch my packmates, but I won't speak too loud for their defence either, lest I be judged myself").

Quite the opposite. I may not agree with everything he says, but I don't think he's guilty, and I said almost exactly that.

You're twisting my words so hard I think a few vertebrae have popped.


EDIT: Leaving in a few ticks. This'll probably be the last post from me for a little while.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I do hope the lack of any Legate or Nog posts in the last few minutes means they're reading my novel and preparing comments.

I'll be back in fifteen minutes or so. Deadline is in an hour and a half, correct?

I'm already done with you, at least for the time being, thanks But what I've been writing you can see above.

In any case, speaking of Shasta, I think he looks rather good for the time being. Whereas sally (to add to what I said in my last post also what has happened meanwhile) sounds really bad also in all her other posts - random short entries with what could be a wannabe-happy mask of a Wolf who is actually in the middle of a crossfire right now. Sort of a hysterical reaction, if you wish. Really, I don't like this behavior. It came so out of nowhere.

[Thinlómien]

Uggh I still have no opinions and it's getting late. Somehow none of the arguments really convince me.

So who I won't vote toDay:
Kitanna - too useful this far.
Nogrod - us agreeing made me think him innocent, and now that we don't agree so much anymore (his case on Sally etc) I still think he looks fairly good.
Sally - well I still think she is one of the players who tends to avoid declaring her innocence when evil.
Shasta - gives me innocent vibes.
Legate - hats off for clearing his head and using his time much better than me, and his way of argumenting seems pretty innocent this far.

I'm the most suspicious about Eomer and Lottie atm, but it's mostly just gut-feeling. Maybe reread or more thinking would be in order.


edit: xed with Sally and Legate

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, this is probably the worst. So what, you figured he hadn't seen it and still posted what you did? Makes no sense to me. Didn't sound like it. Sounded like a genuine defence. And now you are relativising the defence - because you were suspected even despite it? I don't really get it.

As I thought... and why I started asking if she really had turned to the dark side.

I might have expressed myself not in the clearest terms in the end of my last post, so let me rephrase it here.

Sally says I shouldn't cry wolf before I see her counterargument.

First of all that counterargument is worthless as it can go both ways (and is not backed by any evidence) and it is actually something one would presume a wolf might do in that tight a situation - being suspected on D1 and all that jazz (it can't be "backed with evidence" this other way either, to be sure).

But the second point I find more damning. I said this turned out a good Day1 as we got sides (fractions, alliances... whatever). That would be good later as there would be something to mull over when the first wolf gets lynched or if enough innocents fitting a pattern are Nightkilled/lynched. But her take on that was that I was crying her a wolf... I do feel like reading a confession here.


Okay. I have to do a few other things as well and it's getting late (2AM shortly). I'll be back to vote and will most probably vote for Sally unless something new emerges.

PS. I see G55 has posted. After a quick skim I think I may need to think the potential relationship between her and Sally again - and what it means to my high suspicion on Sally at the moment. And I thought I would be done away with all the stuff early enough to vote like now and go to sleep... Well back, in half an hour or something.