WW LXXXIX: The Terror of Tol Fuin

[satansaloser2005]

At a quick glance....

My dark prince is clearly innocent. Applying meta-logic, a wolf Nilp wouldn't drop out of a game. Without the meta-logic, however, I still find him to be an ally rather than a villain. I'll be quite cross with anyone who attempts to lynch him.

Mither-in-law's reactions to suspicion of her are unnecessarily strong, to the point of being a bit rude. Is she trying to hide her guilt? It could be so. Her insistence that not knowing the rules (or pretending not to know them) is such a huge deal, her constant suspicion of myself and Bom, and then her (to me) detached votes? It looks far too planned, too much like she's trying to play the disagreeable little mage who dislikes everyone's styles and causes just enough fuss to look like she cares, when in reality she doesn't care who dies (as long as it's not her packmates, mind you).

If Mith is a wolf, Nog probably isn't (based on his confusing yet logical post #340). However, his hesitation to follow the Kit wagon does look fishy. I'm trying to decide if it was a legitimate fear that the lynch was too easy, or if he had more sinister motives. I'm leaning toward the latter, but as I've said I also don't think he and Mith would be in the same pack, so I can't decide which I suspect more. Lynching one would likely prove the innocence or guilt of the other, if nothing else.

I'm not really that ready to make any sort of case on anyone else, which is why I'm not mentioning them more explicitly. However, I will offer a list to share my blase little hunches on them all (which will of course change once I take a good look at everyone).



Guiltier:
Mith
Nog

Coming to the dark side:
Galadriel (I'm thinking it may be her newness rather than guilt, but I'm still wary)

May have stolen my pudding:
Lommy
Legate
Bom (so little to go on, and what he has written is pretty useless, his weird Kit vote aside)

Likely not lupine:
Eomer (I keep flip flopping on this, but I'm inclined to think him innocent at the moment)
Greenie (looks agreeable as well as not guilty, so I'll definitely not vote her toDay)
Nilp





I have to make some more phone calls, so I'll be out....again....for a bit. Sorry.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

At a quick glance....


Mither-in-law's reactions to suspicion of her are unnecessarily strong, to the point of being a bit rude. Is she trying to hide her guilt? It could be so. Her insistence that not knowing the rules (or pretending not to know them) is such a huge deal, her constant suspicion of myself and Bom, .

You know what I find rude? Calling people weird and strange or Ms. or cowards or feeble. I have found you suspicious because you have behaved suspiciously. I find not knowing the rules suspicious and what do you know the person who claimed not to know the rules was a wolf.

Oh and the other thing I find rude is really puerile nicknames so as far as you are concerned I am Mithalwen, I really can't be bothered when the game consists of pointless lists and waiting to the last minute and then jumping on any passing bandwagon. I'd rather listen to yesterday in Parliament or do the washing up. This game is "Huis Clos" and will be unbearable if Nilp is driven off.

Whatever.

[Inziladun]

C'mon now folks. Let's not have the acrimony. You don't want to displease the Master, do you?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

C'mon now folks. Let's not have the acrimony. You don't want to displease the Master, do you?

I bloody love you.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I bloody love you.

Danke schön, and back atcha.

[satansaloser2005]

DAY ONE

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm off to bed pretty much now, meaning that I get to cast the first vote of the Day! I'm not sure about this, but it being the best shot I have,

++ Bom

I think I've explained enough in my previous posts, but in short - planning to vote Sally because of her "death wish" strikes me as an idea that benefits the baddies more than us.

I do have to shake my head at this, because, to me, Bom's "suspicion" of me was a joke, and a fairly obvious one. But it was the first Day, and as I've stated somewhere else, baddies can hide behind jokes, so in the absence of having a better candidate, I could see how Greenie would do this. I still don't entirely agree with it, but I'll give it a pass (especially because she didn't vote me ).

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Thanks dear

++Sally
My hat I say!

I have to go now. Best of luck to the village for the rest of today.

We know she was an innocent, so I'll not bother to comment on this much, except to say that I'm going to eat a sock when I get home tonight.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

++Galadriel55

So you'll remember me forever as the first person ever to vote for you in Werewolf. Har!

Seriously: too much defending of Sally, too much attacking Bom and a weird interpretation of Kitanna. I think there's something lupine with this one!

He'd voiced his suspicions, and backed them up with a fairly solid vote. I don't see a huge problem here.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

++Lottie

See above for reasons.

Shasta, out.

First Lottie vote, and probably the one that got him killed.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

OK it has been a long hot day and my head hurts, I feel I must stay with my strongest pick. I found the initial announcement odd and the complete volteface on playing style too bizarre.

++Satansaloser

I'm flipping known for this stuff. (That and my name is Sally, but meh.) As I've said to Nog before, playing style or abundance of posts does not dictate wolvery, so for that to be her strong point against me? It's definitely shaky. (I'll let this pass, however, because the post in question -of mine- was rather intended to stir up discussion, so I shan't fault people for, well, discussing it. It was also the first Day, so I get that she didn't have much to go on, especially if she wasn't feeling well.)

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, voting now, to minimalise the mess and make votes more relevant in their reading.

++Lottie

He initially suspected Lottie because her first list was, well, rubbish. It seems a sudden case, because his list before that had Lottie as just a person he'd like to see more from, but at the same time I don't see Legate bussing a packmate when he easily could have made me his top suspect for the Day instead.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

++LOTTIE

Sorry m'dear but you're more suspicious than Sally...


edit: xed with G55 and Legate

Erm, since when? No, I know, Lommie doesn't find me that guilty, and that's lovely, but the statement looks fishy to me. It was between me, whom she didn't even suspect, and only one other person? What about everyone else in the village? Just an observation, and possibly even a paranoid one. >.<

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

++Lommy

I still maintain that this was sort of random. If I may quote the following....

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I could vote for Greenie, Eomer, Lommy, and possibly Nilp, but there has been limited participation from all of them.

Lommy's posts are somewhat fishy - she has no opinions well into the Day, and decides to vote for Lottie as soon as Shasta casts suspicion on her, but then decides against it. She will probably be my candidate.

Up until this, she had ONLY commented on Kit and Bom. They were her suspects, they were the baddies. Then Lommie is suddenly evil for not having much of an opinion. It just looks strange to me. Also, notice that her "I could vote for" list included neither of the people she was up against until just previously in the thread.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I see this has been decided while I was writing my last post. Let's check it.

++ Loslote

This looks so bad. "I see this has been decided," he says. So because it's been decided, he wants to just go along with it? It bothers me a lot. Like, a lot a lot.

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

++Nilpaurion Felagund

There's my boy.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

++Galadriel

Erm....that's my vote. Hi there. *waves*



DAY TWO

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Will probably be around later but there's a chance I'll have no internet access whatsoever, so I'll vote now.

++Galadriel55

Was suspicious of her yesterday, and she looks more suspicious with every post. Not certain she's guilty or anything but she is my top suspect.

Interested in seeing Kitanna's comeback on Lommy, which I'm pretty sure will have to be toned down as it seems to rest on a misinterpretation.

Sally still suspicious. Wondering about Nerwen, Mithalwen and Nilp.

Hopefully (probably) back later.

At least he's consistent? :/

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Bed-time.

++ Eomer

She laid off Bom in a previous post, and now seems to be voting Eomer because (a few posts back) she describes him as confusing. I'm not liking this.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Nogrod, you of all people should know how I feel about last minute voting. I don't call half an hour before deadline early. Better to steer where you believe someone guilty than follow ....

Anyway the indisposition of last night means I am tired now ... same vote, same reasons - generally all over the place.

++Satansaloser

Same vote for no reasons. She didn't even try to come up with another candidate. I know she's not the seer, because she'd be all over someone else if she was, so my best guess is that she's a wolf who realizes that I'm (as always) easy enough to get rid of, and she's going to take that opportunity.

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

Argh. No new developments that I've really noticed - I didn't have a chance to start my read-through at the time I planned and so had to do a rather rushed and still not-quite-complete one - just considering of Day One suspicions. Honestly, if I'm going to be this bad about time I should just drop out or something. Anyway, throwaway vote:

++Kitanna

x'ed with Mithalwen.

I flipping HATE this vote. Calling it a throwaway vote is my biggest problem here; if he just said he didn't have time, I'd be okay with it, but calling it a throwaway? :/

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You might want to consider doing all that during the Night. Saves time.

Anyways, I think I've talked about Kit enough toDay to not have to repeat everything now. If you want clarification (*looks at Legate*) tell me so and I'll summarise my reasoning.

++Kitanna

Edit: xed with.... everything!

So now she flips back to Kitanna (the flipping here being from her vote yesterDay going in a completely different direction). Obviously we know how this worked out, but I do have to give her some credit for going back to and sticking with a suspicion, even if it was wrong. I still don't like her vote from yesterDay, however.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay, I just can't wait for the 45 minutes even if I wished to. Too early a call tomorrow.

I'm getting uneasy with this, even if there are reasons staring right at my eyes there. This Kit-wagon looks like too opportunistic even if popular wagons hjave caught baddies too. But now something feels really odd in here.

++ Mith

What the heck?!?! So you suspect Kit, you think the case against her is good, but you're still not going to vote for her?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

++Eomer

Although to be honest, I feel now really unsure about it right when I cast it. But whatever. Decisions need to be made.

It's important to note here that he ties Eomer and Kit, which makes me strongly believe that if either of them is a wolf, the other is not. I'm leaning toward (if either of them) Legate being the wolf in the scenario here.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

++Kitanna

Rather her than Eomer. (If she's innocent and he is not I'm going to hit somebody for making this statement, possibly myself.)


edit: xed with Kit - and sorry to hear about stressful RL, it's not fun.

I'm not comfortable with this vote either. See Legate, only in reverse. But would Lommie be that obvious?

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

Gah. That took too long.

++Kitanna

Previous blinkly-light thing still stands.

I still think he's innocent, so I don't know. Meh.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Be ready to hit yourself, Lommykins.


++Sally

I'll vote my real suspect

Edit: But I die innocent I say! INNOCENT! But really, good luck to the rest of the village.

*pets her*

We'll meet up and have a feast of hats. What do you say?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Running out of time

++Kitanna.

EDIT:X'd since last post.

Again with the "she's innocent, so meh" spiel.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

++Kit

Bloody lack of time. More of the splainy toMorrow if I'm still around. >.<

Hello, my vote again. Moving on now....


DAY THREE

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Just my luck. I'm the only one here for over an hour, then people appear just as I'm going to bed. Anyway, I'm not at all sure about this, but since I want to base my vote on an actual logical reason instead of a vague fishy feeling I haven't havd the time to check properly, my vote will go to

++ Nogrod

I'm agreeing with some of her logic here, so I'm going to call this vote legit, but of course it's also a safe time to vote, a time when anything can happen, so it could be a show case (see what I did there?) rather than actual suspicion. I'm just trying to balance the side of me that wants to trust Greenie with the tiny part of me that's screaming that she's a wolf. Tiny, tiny part, but still. Need balance!




And I didn't even cross-post this entire time. I call shenanigans.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Oh, I do find it pleasant when people enjoy Werewolf; and what's so difficult about it, I wonder?

You're all a bunch of freaks for letting G55 off the hook - as you are so clearly doing. Well, you haven't fooled me, missy. I'm onto you.

I'm in danger of dishonouring tradition and the ways of my ancestors by admitting this, but Sally is gradually slipping down my suspicion list. I know, I know! She's still up there, but Nilp has sort of barged her off second place.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

C'mon now folks. Let's not have the acrimony.

Exactly. I have only skimmed bits and pieces along the day as I have been busy elsewhere, lately writing my Arda Cup 2011 post for the games in Valmar which took soo much longer I expected...

But really. This has been so gentlemanly (gentlewomanly) sport for such a long time I'm a bit confused where all this is coming from. There were some incidences years ago where people got hurt and we made those WW-guidelines and all that - and I thought they worked, and they have worked.

So what's up now?

I think Lommy has not been the most cordial in her choice of expressions (which knowing her I find hard to be any evidence of an ill will: she surely didn't want to upset anyone, not to talk of hurting anyone), but I do find Nilp and Mithalwen over-reacting a bit as well.

Let's now come back to square one, shall we? Nilp stays in the game, Mithalwen let's the bad feelings go and Lommy watches her tongue, right?


On another issue, this turns out to be a bad day for me as I have to wake up at 7AM tomorrow so I need to quit and vote around midnight/1AM the latest, meaning two to three hours before the DL. If I'm around on D4 I can stay to the very end "in compensation"...

Well, diving into read the posts of toDay I have not read and then hopefully having something to say about the game itself.

[satansaloser2005]

Go to bed, Noggins.


I'm looking at all the votes right now, and will probably be back with a post shortly.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Go to bed, Noggins.

Heh, it's only past eleven... You'll have to stand me for an hour or so.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Heh, it's only past eleven... You'll have to stand me for an hour or so.

Ugh....

[Nogrod]

Greenie explaining her out of the blue vote for Eomer yesterDay:

Originally Posted by Greenie

I needed to go to sleep and had no idea who I'd vote, so I chose to go without explanation for someone I was vaguely uneasy about - fishing for reactions while if he was in fact lynched we would not be lynching anyone I believed innocent.

Now this I think looks fishy, if you can say claiming to be fishing looks fishy without making a sort of tautology.

If Nilp was a wolf, then threatening to pull out would be a bit too dramatic and thus I don't suspect him that much at the moment. We like to play with you Nilp, so just bring yourself back! But we might also suspect you from time to time if there was a reason - and I think the basic reason some (including me) suspected you was your very confident backing of all us Lottie-lynchers - like you tried to buddy-up with us in a way more fitting to wolves than innocents who don't exactly "know" things. I do agree on principle that I'd find it more improbable than not that a wolf would have joined the hanging of Lottiewolf on D1 in this situation, but I wouldn't give a free-pass to Lommy and Legate because of that (and I don't presuppose you would give it to me either).

Why I find Lommy & Legate more or less innocent is that I think they speak sense and make good points - and them lynching a wolf is kind of adding up to that general feeling. It's not evidence, but one piece - even if a large one - in a pile.

I'm really torn with Mith now. Her wolf-POV posts (not one but a few) look a bit too deep inside views or too closely thought to be innocent-made (or then I'm just seeing ghosts here); after Lommy made X number of suspicions on her she only answered the one where Lommy was maybe getting a bit over-eager to find evidence to support Mith's guilt. That's something. But still I'm most bothered about Mith's vote on D1.

There were three wolves on D1 and I just don't think they all let it go or actively sponsored her lynch. It just doesn't make sense as fex. Sally (Mith's vote btw.) was gathering quite a lot suspicion as well.The wolves can play sacrifying one of them but it's not what they normally do or which is clever for them on D1 on average. And the only one whom we could interpret as "trying to help" Lottie was Mith.

So either Mith is a wolf or then no one cared about Lottie dying.

Bom then... I'm leaning him to be too detached not being a wolf (and if he is and wins with this performance we can just nullify it as the win was not earned). I admit his vote yesterDay gave me the creeps and for a moment I was considering of voting him just because of that. But after some second thoughts I think it would be unwise to lynch him.

If he doesn't start appearing more often, I'd suggest to the mods of the next games not to allow him in though, unless he swears he will play too and not only hang around as totally unpredictable dead weight. (Sorry Bom, you may have busy days and whatever - and if there is a force majeure for you not playing then I do apologise, but if not, then I hope you understand that this is a game where we expect everyone to get involved).

Okay. A short pause now...


EDIT: X'd with Sally's last one. Hey, where is everybody?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by G55

And that's even more flipflopping on your part, Lommy.

Nope, that's an honest change of opinion after getting more data. If I now decide Nilp is innocent after all, then you may call it flip-flopping (if you ask me, flip-flopping needs at least two changes of opinion and it's more like minor "then again maybe..." than actual change of opinion).

Originally Posted by Nog

even if I think Mith is correct in that one facet of it she criticises you about. But her only pointing out that one thing - where she probably is right and you Lommy are not

Fair enough if she says she only bantered with Nilp once, I didn't count, I was only speaking about the impression I got. However if she only said it once then Nilp might have said something like that more times for me to get the picture (or at least I think that's likely!) and thus Mith's defense of her own actions doesn't disprove my point.

Originally Posted by Greenie

I should have known that my finding Nog innocent can't last long, and the above is pretty much what gave me second thoughts. He washes his hands of the Kit-wagon after suspecting her pretty much all Day, fuelling the bandwagon without being de facto a member of it. Really makes me raise my eyebrows.

I like this: it's refreshing to get new povs on things.

Not sure what to make out of Nilp's frustration, except that it's not fun. Maybe I will refrain from analysing people's frustrations and stick to other stuff.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Let's now come back to square one, shall we? Nilp stays in the game, Mithalwen let's the bad feelings go and Lommy watches her tongue, right?

Sounds like a plan. Although I will maybe refrain from speaking even half metaphorically or trying to phrase things in some other than the very basic manner because everybody seems to misunderstand it in this game in one way or another (starting from Kit not getting my stock market stuff)... (clarification of smiley: mostly at self)

Originally Posted by Sally

Erm, since when? No, I know, Lommie doesn't find me that guilty, and that's lovely, but the statement looks fishy to me. It was between me, whom she didn't even suspect, and only one other person? What about everyone else in the village? Just an observation, and possibly even a paranoid one. >.<

You were the two people others were thinking of voting back then, I think...


edit: xed with Eomer's vote, Nog and Sally