WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[Nerwen]

So I need to vote soon, just in case my connection goes down again, or I can't otherwise get back online before DL. This will be basically a placeholder, but still for somebody I have some suspicions against– which will probably be G55 (reasons already stated).

The other person I'm considering, though, is McCaber, who has been coming across as quite shifty to me.

Just a moment to think...

EDIT:X'd since last post.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So I need to vote soon, just in case my connection goes down again, or I can't otherwise get back online before DL. This will be basically a placeholder, but still for somebody I have some suspicions against– which will probably be G55 (reasons already stated).

The other person I'm considering, though, is McCaber, who has been coming across as quite shifty to me.

I'm wrestling with a similar dilemma. Today is looking to be quite busy from an RL standpoint. Trouble is, McCaber voted for G55. Who looks worse? Or does someone else outdo both in shiftiness?

McCaber is usually one of the quiet ones who is the very definition of "submarine". His immediate response to tp yesterDay in giving three "random" suspects was a bit odd. He didn't vote Day 1, so no help there.

And toDay he's latched on to G55 early, for "trying to stop a lynch of the Forge-ite Bom Tombadillo, and coming close to succeeding". Is that what she did? Hm.

x/d with G55

[Boromir88]

Nearly fully trust/would truly be surprised if they were Forgers...

Pitch
Mith

Feel trusty enough that I won't vote today...

Nerwen
Phantom

No idea...


Glirdan
Finduilas
Eruhen

Makes me skeptical...

sally
G55
McCaber
Inzil
Rikae

Could have put Rikae as creepy, but she always does, so it's no more creepy than normal. But, I shall be looking at the skeptical list and possibly get to the no ideas.

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

No idea...


Glirdan
Finduilas
Eruhen

Personally, Eruhen has made it to my "trust enough to not vote for today" list. Other than that, and where you have placed Inzil, I seem to agree mostly with your placing of people. Which makes me put you on the "trust enough to not vote for today" list.

xed with Sally and Nerwen

[the phantom]

I was doing a bit of rereading and spotted this-

Originally Posted by Finduilas

...as I lay in bed tonight thinking about evil dwarves

Ha ha ha ha!

[satansaloser2005]

Now that Finduilas has admitted to having nasty dreams about Phantom, I think I'll go analyze him.

Also, oi. Boro, why did you vote me yesterDay? You make me sad.


ETA: Finduilas, that is, not Phantom. There's simply not enough time to tell all the things wrong with His Puddingness.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Personally, Eruhen has made it to my "trust enough to not vote for today" list. Other than that, and where you have placed Inzil, I seem to agree mostly with your placing of people. Which makes me put you on the "trust enough to not vote for today" list.

Then I'll start with Inzil because, he's giving me sketchy vibes (or if you prefer just suspicious dwarvish majiks).

His joking vote for Galadriel started it. It was obviously a joke and not an actual vote since it wasn't highlighted. Kidding/joke suspicions is all in good fun, but it just looks weird to fake a vote as late as it was in the day.

Then followed by the back-and-forth with Bom in posts #93, 95 and 96. Concluding with Inzil casting 1st vote for tp (later retracted) but G55 and Bom quickly tacked on their votes.

Day 1 you can say I had a funky feeling, but didn't say anything because I wanted to observe him a bit more.

Then today

Originally Posted by Inzil

Let's see. I'm feeling pretty good about Eruhen, since she tied Bom with tp. Boro's vote might seem the least shiny of the Bom-voters, just because it came so late. Baddies have little to lose by putting another nail in a doomed mate's coffin, and everything to gain.

Call me biased, because it's about me, but I just don't like the look of that suspicion, without it really trying to look like a suspicion. I know Inzil's argument about wolf-on-wolf votes is a normal assumption to make, and I believe Inzil said at the beginning of the day he want to find something in the Bom votes.

Granted I didn't indicate I cross-posted, but I rarely ever take the time to edit in a "x-post" unless it's a massively long one. All one has to do is look at the time stamps and see my vote crossed with Inzil's and wilwa's therefor mine coming last in that group of 3 is inconsequential. Inzil pointing out my vote of all of them, being the "last one" and thus "least shiny" looks like a cheap boot-strapping suspicion attempt. (ergo, makes me suspicious of him).

[Boromir88]

And on sally...sorry my vote made you sad, but it's the quickest and easiest way I can take to try to figure you out.

That is put you under some pressure to get you talking instead of going through from day to day being an enigma.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And on sally...sorry my vote made you sad, but it's the quickest and easiest way I can take to try to figure you out.

That is put you under some pressure to get you talking instead of going through from day to day being an enigma.

Alas, it won't work this time, love. Today aside, I'm simply too busy.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Oh dear, how terribly confusing.

I think it would be rather unfun if the KD did stuff purposely to die. I don't think that the plan is fool-proof, though of course, any werewolf strategy usually isn't (that is, if werewolf is enough like Mafia for me to be able to say that). And also, Phantom suggested that the Sweetheart be a turncoat and do her best to get the fellow killed. That's just wrong... from a story point of view. As to whether it's logical game-wise, I'll think about it as I lay in bed tonight thinking about evil dwarves. Not that me thinking it logical changes anything... But it would still be wrong...

Agreed. Glad we've mostly settled all this.

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Sorry for "playing the newbie" folks. I really have had more to say, I'm just keep writing it and not posting it until it is obsolete. That being said, I have 8 minutes till deadline, and guests in the living room... meaning, I don't have time to write another posts in argument.

++ Inziladun

Edit: thanks muchly Boro.

Tip: Even if what you've said has already been mentioned, you should still post it. Otherwise, you look like you don't have an opinion of your own, which can be even more troublesome for you.

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Hm. I'm feeling terribly out of this game, I've been too quiet. Let's see if I can fix that.

Zil, my vote for you was a case of... indecision (with a smidgen of time pressure too). I wanted to vote for both TP and Bom, but I dislike killing people on the first day (sorry, always have, I'll show more backbone toDay), so I voted for someone who had no votes, and who had not particularly struck me as a definite innocent. So I haven't decided on you yet, but that's why I voted for you. Actually, considering your retraction vote from Phantom (who'm I currently think is "innocent", though most other players seem to have termed him as evil, Forge member or not...) to Bom, I think I might trust you...

So you voted Dun based on lack of trust, rather than suspicion? Interesting.

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Folwren said she would change the narration to not be from his point of view, so I'm thinking that it will be tolerably obvious to careful readers as to whether he dies. Though I kind of like the idea of the Forgers not knowing.

I have a problem with your logic here. If "careful readers" will notice, it's likely the Forge would be able to figure it out as well. After all, we weren't aligned based upon our intelligence. It just seems like a strange statement to me.

Originally Posted by Finduilas, to Boro

Personally, Eruhen has made it to my "trust enough to not vote for today" list. Other than that, and where you have placed Inzil, I seem to agree mostly with your placing of people. Which makes me put you on the "trust enough to not vote for today" list.

Why? Why do you trust Eruhen now? At the point at which Eruhen voted for Bom, yes, it tied him up with Phantom, but Phantom (or someone else) easily could have been lynched. And if we go with Phantom's idea of a more nefarious and mistrusting Forge, Eruhen could have been trying to lynch Bom and still be guilty.

[Pitchwife]

Back from walking the dogs. The Dwarven colour scale toDay, as of now:

White-Hot
(I bet you'd like to know)

Mithril
Eruhen
McCaber
Mith
tp

Iron
Boro
Zil
(too much at each other's throats for mithril)
Finduilas
sally

some darker ore
Ms Cubbies-Overlay

galvorn
G55
Nerwen

And there's really not much point in postponing it -
++G55

[Folwren]

Dismay and distrust was common through the dwarven village that day. Few dwarves felt they could trust any of their neighbors enough to believe anything said. This day, many of them spoke, and no one dwarf made any case noticeably louder than another. And yet, even without one dwarf pushing the thoughts and actions of the others, they seemed to move together, as though led by some unseen force.

How it started, no one quite knew, but it became evident that one dwarf woman had fallen under much distrust.

“It is not me! It cannot be me! It is him, I tell you,” Gal said, pointing towards the dwarf she suspected, “he’s not normal, I know him and he hasn’t been acting normal today! Why don’t you distrust him? Why do you distrust me?”

“A strange hunch, you know?” a dwarf replied with a shrug. “We haven’t much else to go on.”

“Brilliant. So you’ll help the Forges by knocking me off, will you? That won’t do the lot of you a bit of good. Look, it’s him, I know it is – and the loud one who spoke yesterday.” She craned her neck to look for the dwarf who had led most of the debate the previous day. “One of them, probably both of them, are the one’s you’re looking for.”

“We’ve had enough talk,” a dwarf growled. “Let us do away with her.” He moved threateningly towards her, and the crowd murmured their approval. They were becoming dangerous and violent.

“She is a woman, let us put her to death in a gentler way than Bom,” someone suggested.

“Gentler death? It all ends up the same doesn’t it?”

The dwarf ignored the protest, and stepped up to the condemned dwarf. “Will you submit to death, or must we bind you?”

“Take me,” she spat out. “I will not fight. I am not a coward. But stay – let us to the river and there I will take my own life.” She pushed through the mob and they parted before her and then followed as she went to the bridge that spanned the mighty river running down from the mountain. There she turned and climbed onto the stone wall. She faced the dwarves standing at the far end of it, and then she leapt, jumping to her death in the water and the stones below.

Later in the evening, her body was washed up on the shore some miles down from the village. A passing dwarf found her, and he looked, surprised. The sleeve of her shirt had been torn by the rocks and the current, and on her shoulder was a brand he only recognized from rumors he had heard, and it made him shiver, for he thought wrongly that the Valley Forge had found another victim.

Alive
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Boro
Eruhen
Finduilas
Rikae
McCaber
Pitchwife
the Phantom
Mithalwen

Dead
Folwren - Moddess
Bom - Member of the Valley Forge
Wilwa - Night Watchdwarf
Glirdan - Ordo
Gal55 - Member of the Valley Forge

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And toDay he's latched on to G55 early, for "trying to stop a lynch of the Forge-ite Bom Tombadillo, and coming close to succeeding". Is that what she did? Hm.

Well, no. He's voting someone who has done suspicious stuff– but the reason he gives is something that didn't actually happen like that. Again, it just seems shifty.

Okay, then–

++McCaber

This is tentative and I may end up changing it later.

EDIT:converted to vote-post; added comment

[satansaloser2005]

So let me make sure I understand this correctly....

We lynch an ordo. We know we've lynched an ordo.
We lynch a gifted. We know we've lynched a gifted.
We lynch one of the regular Forge members. We know we've lynched a Forge member.
We lynch the KD. We know we've lynched a Forge member.


Is this correct? Because if Foley suddenly decides to stop revealing roles, we would automatically know if it was the KD, so I'm assuming she'll just reveal alignment.



Anyway, off to look at people. I'm in a book shop, yay, so I should be able to catch up properly.


Also....


Spontaneous enough to kill? Pitch?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

So let me make sure I understand this correctly....

We lynch an ordo. We know we've lynched an ordo.
We lynch a gifted. We know we've lynched a gifted.
We lynch one of the regular Forge members. We know we've lynched a Forge member.
We lynch the KD. We know we've lynched a Forge member.


Is this correct? Because if Foley suddenly decides to stop revealing roles, we would automatically know if it was the KD, so I'm assuming she'll just reveal alignment.

That's right as far as I know. Anyone with a Forge mark (ie wolves and KD) will be called a Forge Member if they die. I think we'll know that it's the SH if she's lynched. If she's killed - obviously.

The fact that the KD's role is not revealed upon death makes things much more difficult for the village. It complicates things for the wolves as well, but they have the benefit of knowing something. Also, they can take information from Nightly conversations. For instance, the KD would try to influence the kill, and a wolf could detect that. But ordinary innocents won't know anything.

Edit: xed with Findy, tp, and sally

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mith

(To McCaber) So in ch that case why did you jump straight in to complying with it?

Originally Posted by McCaber

Because if it WAS allowed to fly, it'd be a great way to get information out. I agreed with it, even though I didn't know if our Moddess Goddess would let it.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Um... you know, McCaber, no offence, but I'm not sure that's even an answer. Mith asked you why you jumped straight in without knowing if the plan would be allowed, and you said, "Yes, I did."

No, no, I understand his answer. He was about to leave for the day if I remember correctly, so he wanted to shoot his three suspects out there just in case we did adopt the plan. In other words, he thought it was a plan that could be beneficial and in case we decided to adopt it he wanted to be certain he had done the necessary work to be on board (named suspects). And if we didn't adopt it- oh well, it's not as if his naming of three people hurt anything.

[the phantom]

Well, after rereading what I said back in this post still stands generally- not liking Gal55's attitude yesterday and not wishing to lynch certain people.

Anyway, I have decided to swear fealty to Pitch, Boro, McCaber, and Mith. If by my life or death I can... No, scratch the death part, but if I can possibly save you and stay alive at the same time, I will.

I like that Mith spotted Inzil's word choice, as I noticed it too. Sorry lad.

And I also like that Bom and Gal55 both used Werewolf terminology. Makes me feel better about choosing her. Especially seeing that Nerwen also used Werewolf terms and defended Gal55 today.

edit: x-post Pitch

[Mithalwen]

Right so ....13 players 3 straightforward baddies, KD sweetheart, No other gifted... We can't get complacent despite the Day one success.... can't fall into any silly "it is always worth lynching x because they mess with my head nonsense". We have very little margin for error here. And I need to find my notebook.. it was right here before I went out...argh.... I'll be back soon I hope...