Unfinished Tales - Part One - I - Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin

[Boromir88]

I had used the UT as just a reference to cherry pick extra information or quotes from and fill in the gaps of The Silm and LOTR. But at the urging of one, Mr. Formendacil, when discussing the upcome CbC thread, I decided to go ahead and read this chapter. I feel kind of ashamed now, because it's such a beautiful story and I had gone all these years missing it. I would add more, but it would just get repetitive as I second the "this feels more like reading LOTR than The Silm."

And I can't seem to find a smaller part that stuck out to me. I believe it was Voronwe who commented how the courage of Men, who's fate is to die, would spend their limitted years risking death and fighting Morgoth. It's a pondering question in the difference between Elves and Men.

Men don't view their mortality as a gift, and in this regard they can be reckless with their lives. But it also speaks of their courage to spend their limitted life in defense of the Elves fight against Morgoth. Elves on the other hand, not being able to die from age, are doomed to remember the pains and losses of their world.

[Mister Underhill]

It has been a long, long time since I read the Tales just for the sake of the stories themselves. Thanks, Esty, for getting me to pick up my old copy for sheer pleasure rather than as a resource for some debate or other.

The first thing that strikes me with "Tuor" is the post-apocalyptic feel of Hithlum -- Men and Elves taken as slaves and otherwise abused, evil Men running the show, orcs roaming to and fro at will, and the remnants of good folk relegated to secret and isolated communities.

In LotR the Free Peoples are, well, free, and though the Shadow hangs over them, the West maintains several strongholds of civilization and simple goodness. Here in "Tuor", the vibe is more "Middle-earth-punk" than what we're used to from LotR, and I can't think of any tale in the Silmarillion that evokes quite the same dystopian tone.

Another thing that strikes me is that Aragorn, in his "Strider" persona, carries on a bit of the "outlaw" tradition from this and other First Age tales.

Anyway, a few scattered thoughts, such as they are. More later, perhaps.

[Boromir88]

Going back to this quickly:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And I can't seem to find a smaller part that stuck out to me. I believe it was Voronwe who commented how the courage of Men, who's fate is to die, would spend their limitted years risking death and fighting Morgoth. It's a pondering question in the difference between Elves and Men.

I realized why I couldn't find it, because I was looking at the wrong person. It's actually Ulmo who says how the Eldar will always remember the courage of the Edain:

"For the valour of the Edain the elves shall ever remember remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which they had on earth so little."~Of Tuor

Mr. Underhill's post reminded me what I thought through most of the chapter, which actually reminded me of one of your old threads, Esty.

Not all those who wander are lost.

Here in this post-apocalyptic Hithlum, Tuor is an outlaw. He is a thrall in the very place that should be The House of Hador's. He's forced out of Hithlum and the tale is all of Tuor's wanderings. However, it's wandering with a purpose, a purpose forseen from the outset. We don't know why, and Tuor doesn't even seem to be able to explain it, but he is drawn to Gondolin. He feels spiritted by hearing Turgon's name and seeking out the Hidden City. Reaching Gondolin, the place that Tuor is continually told no Man would ever be permitted entrance to. It gives his wandering a purpose, otherwise he'd probably spent more of his days hiding in Androth.

The last thing, I don't know what you call it, but it struck me as one of those wise Elven sayings, Tolkien loved creating, from Gelmir:

"Through darkness one may come to the light."

Nothing I can think of that would add any meaning or significance to Gelmir's words to Tuor. I just thought it interesting and sage Elven advice.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Just one brief comment from the beginning of this story:

What is it with Tolkien's wives and mothers?! Here we have yet another who effectively abandons her child (yes, she provided for fostering, but that's not the same as having an actual mother). Rather than staying with Tuor, Rían leaves him with the Elves and dies. Is life as a wife more important than life as a mother? Does her life end with that of her husband? This is an attitude I don't understand.

That is echoed in Arwen's death after Aragorn died, and I'm trying to remember another example that doesn't occur to me right now.

[mark12_30]

It stirred the magic again.

Wandering through the forgotten city... incredible.

[Guinevere]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Just one brief comment from the beginning of this story:

What is it with Tolkien's wives and mothers?! Here we have yet another who effectively abandons her child (yes, she provided for fostering, but that's not the same as having an actual mother). Rather than staying with Tuor, Rían leaves him with the Elves and dies. Is life as a wife more important than life as a mother? Does her life end with that of her husband? This is an attitude I don't understand.

That is echoed in Arwen's death after Aragorn died, and I'm trying to remember another example that doesn't occur to me right now.

Ha, that's exactly what I was thinking, when I read the beginning of the story!!
(Miriel also left her newborn son Fëanor, but just from overwhelming weariness (aka postnatal depression) so it's not quite the same.)

The beginning tells us only very briefly about Tuor's youth with the Grey-elves, his captivity under the Easterlings (I had hardly rememberd this; but was delighted with the detail of the pursuing dogs being devoted to Tuor; I can imagine he was the only one that was kind to them! ) and his time as an outlaw. But the tale becomes much more detailed from the start of his journey to the Sea.

I agree very much with all that Formendacil has written! The detailed description of the landscape also struck me, and reminded me of LotR. (I now traced Tuor's wanderings on the Atlas of MiddleEarth)
The Silmarillion was rather hard to read, but UT is a splendid complement, and much easier to read. We get to know the protagonists much closer here, and can feel with them.

Personally, I have a special liking for Voronwë. His tale of how he tarried on the way and his description of his delight in Nan-tathren is hauntingly beautiful and his account of the sea voyage is very touching and tragic. There is hardly any other elf who reveals so much about himself, is there? I also like how close companions and friends Tuor and Voronwë become, and the way Tuor sometimes takes the initiative.
The detailed description of the Orfalch Echor and all its gates sounds again more like in a fairytale.
And indeed it is very frustrating when the story comes to an abrupt stop!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

What is it with Tolkien's wives and mothers?! Here we have yet another who effectively abandons her child (yes, she provided for fostering, but that's not the same as having an actual mother). Rather than staying with Tuor, Rían leaves him with the Elves and dies. Is life as a wife more important than life as a mother? Does her life end with that of her husband? This is an attitude I don't understand.

What do you expect from an author whose own mother died when he was twelve?

Originally Posted by Guinevere

I agree very much with all that Formendacil has written! The detailed description of the landscape also struck me, and reminded me of LotR. (I now traced Tuor's wanderings on the Atlas of MiddleEarth)

Yes! Voronwë's line Ered en Echoriath, ered e·mbar nín! alone is like one of those gestures by which Japanese No actors conjure up an entire landscape on an empty stage.

Originally Posted by Guinevere

Personally, I have a special liking for Voronwë. His tale of how he tarried on the way and his description of his delight in Nan-tathren is hauntingly beautiful and his account of the sea voyage is very touching and tragic. There is hardly any other elf who reveals so much about himself, is there? I also like how close companions and friends Tuor and Voronwë become, and the way Tuor sometimes takes the initiative.

I concur. Running with the comparison/juxtaposition of Tuor and Turin, Voronwë is Tuor's Beleg - an elf who risked everything for the sake of his friendship with a mortal; and unlike his counterpart in the other tale, his friendship and trust was vindicated and rewarded. (Didn't he, back in the old BoLT, survive to sire the same Ilfiniol son of Bronweg who told some of the Tales to Eriol?)

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

What do you expect from an author whose own mother died when he was twelve?

This occurred to me too... but I'm hesitant about how to read it. After all, Tolkien's mother left his father in South Africa to bring the boys to England, and Arthur Tolkien died there. His own mother, in contrast to Rían, devoted herself to raising her sons (though the parallel of doing so without the support of the broader family is there), and although she died early, it was not out of anything that we would normally construe as grief for her husband.

That being said, though... I think Tuor as a parallel for Tolkien is a valid possibility, intentional parallels aside. Certainly, he "reads" to me like a Tolkien-persona more than many characters, and "feels" like Faramir (the one character Tolkien mentioned as identifying with) and ends up with the same fate as Beren (whose name Tolkien had placed on his tombstone): marrying an Elf-lady. Tuor's story is even happier than Beren's, though--or seems to be, in its final version. Unfortunately, the Tale of Eärendil was never written and the Tale of Gondolin was never retold in full after the BoLT era... as reconstructed in the Silm, it seems quite possible that Tuor's immortality with Idril (as the counter-fate to Lúthien sharing Beren's fate) bodes a happy ending for them, individually, though it came through the wrack of Gondolin, but the HoME-recorded jottings surrounding their fate in the midst of the Tale of Eärendil are not always so certain...

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I concur. Running with the comparison/juxtaposition of Tuor and Turin, Voronwë is Tuor's Beleg - an elf who risked everything for the sake of his friendship with a mortal; and unlike his counterpart in the other tale, his friendship and trust was vindicated and rewarded. (Didn't he, back in the old BoLT, survive to sire the same Ilfiniol son of Bronweg who told some of the Tales to Eriol?)

One and the same--and Voronwë's survival through the fall of Gondolin to become one of Eärendil's companions seems , at least to me--I have no textual evidence on hand to cite--like a strand that was never lost, even if any mention of Ilfiniol was necessarily lost with the loss of the Cottage of Lost Play.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Running with the comparison/juxtaposition of Tuor and Turin, Voronwë is Tuor's Beleg - an elf who risked everything for the sake of his friendship with a mortal; and unlike his counterpart in the other tale, his friendship and trust was vindicated and rewarded.

I don't know that I agree with the comparison between Voronwë and Beleg.

The latter became Túrin's friend naturally, through an association of many years.

On the other hand, Voronwë really wasn't a friend at all. He was placed in Tuor's path by Ulmo, and intended as a guide for Tuor to Gondolin. It wasn't until Voronwë heard Ulmo's words through Tuor's mouth:

"Will Turgon forget that which [Ulmo] spoke to him of old: Remember that the last hope of the Noldor cometh from the Sea? Or again: When peril is nigh one shall come from Nevrast to warn thee"?

Before Tuor said that, Voronwë had at first refused to lead Tuor to Gondolin.

So, I think Voronwë was less a friend to Tuor, and more a wise Elf recognizing and accepting his own part in matters above his pay grade.