Technology in middle earth

[Drognan]

Thank You for excellent explanation... Never thought in that way actually.

[mark12_30]

You're frmCroatia, Drognan? Interesting! Welcome to the Downs.

[Dilettante]

Well, they seemed to be a bit more technologically advanced in the Shire, since they had clocks...and mantlepieces to put them on.

Actually, while most of Middle-Earth seems to be reflective of the Middle-Ages, the Shire feels at times more like 18th or 19th century rural Europe, England specifically.

[Lalwendë]

The Shire is like an idealised vision of rural England at the turn of the 19th/20th century. And yes, it does seem more technologically advanced than other parts of Middle-earth. They engage in trade and have a rudimentary postal service and police force, and clearly also some kind of legal system if they have lawyers dealing with wills. The concept of personal property is at an advanced stage and they have progressed beyond feudalism. The people enjoy luxuries such as smoking, nice cakes, teapsoons and umbrellas.

These things are most likely produced on a small-ish scale as there's no evidence of factories or the like, and I have a feeling that this is reflection in some way of the ideals of William Morris - for useful, attractive things made by artisans and craftsmen.

But are they different? The rest of Middle-earth clearly has the capacity, intellectually speaking, to advance in technology - they aren't lacking in small luxuries either (they have books, for example), though we see much less of them because the story is less domestic when we get to those stages, the focus is on battles, journeys, meetings with grand people. So it could be that these things do exist, we simply do not see them much.

It could also be that the rest of Middle-earth, in contrast to The Shire, has been engaged in military struggles for a long time, and that tends to seriously affect material development. Resources would instead be directed into building up military and defence capability, so much of the technological advancement was instead derived from or centred around weaponry. I imagine that if they had not been engaged in defending against Sauron and his agents for so long, that both Gondor and Rohan would have developed considerably - there was scientific endeavour at one time:

Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry or in high, cold towers asking questions of the stars.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

The Shire is like an idealised vision of rural England at the turn of the 19th/20th century. And yes, it does seem more technologically advanced than other parts of Middle-earth. They engage in trade and have a rudimentary postal service and police force, and clearly also some kind of legal system if they have lawyers dealing with wills. The concept of personal property is at an advanced stage and they have progressed beyond feudalism. The people enjoy luxuries such as smoking, nice cakes, teapsoons and umbrellas.

That's actually a very interesting point - one that at least I have never thought of before.

And funny, now as you point at it, it's easy to figure a clock on the mantelpiece at Bag End but hard to imagine one in Minas Tirith's great hall. Or how easy it is to entertain a picture of Lobelia with an umbrella but hard to see Arwen covering herself from rain with one.

Then I start wondering whether that was just a mistake, a lapse of thought, by the prof or whether he had a consistent view on the different levels of technologies around the ME and even a point in there?

What could that background-philosophy be? Those who live for war and evil only develop evil technologies, those under a constant threat of war are forced more or less to the same destiny (and militaristic envirovement leads into stagnating social policies aka feaudalism, kings, military elite, serfs...) - but those who enjoy peace and prosperity develop nice technologies and progressive social institutions (even though not TOO progressive for the prof's taste )?

Or what do you think?

[Galadriel55]

Interesting idea indeed. I think Nog is right. In other places technology and developments are concentrated on war, and in the Shire on peaceful and domestic improvements.

[Lalwendë]

I think it's one of those areas where Tolkien's world reflects the real world. When nations are either at war or in a constant state of defence, they do tend to focus their scientific efforts more on developing weapons and their resources are directed in the same way.

Contrast Mordor with The Shire - the former has developed an impressive array of weaponry (you can see in RotK they have not only the trebuchet/catapult which fires something like grenades but also some of the rudimentary weapons used in WWI and probably oil). Two examples:

As soon as the great catapults were set, with many yells and the creaking of rope and winch, they began to throw missiles marvellously high, so that they passed right above the battlement and fell thudding within the first circle of the City; and many of them by some secret art burst into flame as they came toppling down.

And

Busy as ants hurrying orcs were digging, digging lines of deep trenches in a huge ring, just out of bowshot from the walls; and as the trenches were made each was filled with fire, though how it was kindled or fed, by art or devilry, none could see.

But Mordor is a blackened wasteland and the Orcs don't seem to lead very comfortable lives, rather brutal ones where they have to fight for a scrap or food or tiny luxury. Things are quite the opposite in The Shire. Even those at the bottom of the social pile, families like the Gamgees, seem not to be lacking in very much, perhaps apart from schooling (though I'm not clear if Sam didn't know his letters because he wasn't taught them as a child or if he just wasn't interested...). The Hobbits clearly know what level of tech is acceptable to them and do not want anything which impinges on their lifestyle - as seen by their reaction towards Saruman's new mill!

I can't think of any places in the modern world as extreme as Mordor or as idyllic as The Shire, but we can all think of countries which have expended high percentages of their money on military investment to the detriment of their people, or who have been engaged in war for so many years that any kind of human development effectively draws to a halt (Afghanistan is maybe a very good example of this?). Perhaps a little of this was at work in Gondor, too much of their resources having to be poured into defence. And also Rohan. Though I think they are also a younger culture so you could maybe not expect them to develop all that much, I often wonder how much Helm's Deep actually cost them to maintain!

The Elves, I think, we can leave out of this line of thought. Tolkien shows us that they had entered a state where they sought to preserve, rather than develop. Their stasis was brought about for very different reasons than the stasis of Gondor.

But in the end, I don't think Tolkien wanted to show us that development was a bad thing in itself, just that there were good and bad ways of applying technology. Which is kind of a theme throughout his work if you think about it. The crafts of Celebrimbor aren't a bad thing, but the crafts of Sauron certainly are!