What other fantasy books do YOU read?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

My second-favourite. Number one is Tyrion Lannister

I changed my mind after some more chapters. Jon is second. Arya is first. The Imp is annoying. But less so than Theon: he's Viserys all over, just on the other side of the world.

I really like GRRMartin's style of writing. Although it has LOTR written all over it, it feels like a cross between Tolkien and Rowling. It has more day-to-day details like Harry Potter, but doesn't sound modern, and the plot and characters are much more Tolkien than Rowling. The style of writing is his own though. It's not as "ancient" as Tolkien's, but it's definitely not Rowling's modern style. It's different from both authors. Somehow it has HP's addiction and LOTR's beauty.

There is only one thing that really buggs me, though. So many names are similar to Tolkien/Downs names. It gets me confused about the characters. I still can't get my head around Lommy being a boy. (this one is from the next book in the series - A Clash of Kings)

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I changed my mind after some more chapters. Jon is second. Arya is first. The Imp is annoying. But less so than Theon: he's Viserys all over, just on the other side of the world.

I liked Arya, too. That is, until the middle of the second book. Then she started to ANNOY me. I admit, Tyrion was initially not high up on my list, but after the second book...man, I think Martin put a lot of thought into this guy! And I can't believe I'm saying this, but...Jaime Lannister is slowly working his way up, too!

Can't wait till the next book comes out! Martin left us some huge cliff-hangers in the fifth book.

[Lalwendë]

Tyrion also gets very irritating after a while, there's only so much wise cracking you can take! I think that's one of the best things about Martin as a writer though - his characters change quite a lot. I don't think I could idolise any of the characters in A Song Of Ice and Fire, not even Ned Stark, it's not a world of heroes and villains.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Tyrion also gets very irritating after a while, there's only so much wise cracking you can take! I think that's one of the best things about Martin as a writer though - his characters change quite a lot. I don't think I could idolise any of the characters in A Song Of Ice and Fire, not even Ned Stark, it's not a world of heroes and villains.

SPOILERS AHEAD.

His wisecracks were the reason I did not like him at first. However, after reading a little more closely, I found he was terribly intriguing. He could possibly be called a romantic. Look at the way he keeps remembering his wife (I forget her name). He even feels for the girls working at brothels. But he knows that no one is going to take him seriously - less so if he acts all kind and encouraging. So he shrugs off emotions (or tries to) and acts tough. To put it bluntly, he knows how to play the game of thrones, even if he doesn't want to.

Of course, I'm not saying he's all good. He pretty much killed his lover and his father in cold blood, and he doesn't cringe at stealing or bribing. Still, I think he's less ruthless than Cercei and Tywin - and his greyness is what makes him so interesting.

Am I missing something here, because suddenly my argument sounds pretty stupid.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

SPOILERS AHEAD.

His wisecracks were the reason I did not like him at first. However, after reading a little more closely, I found he was terribly intriguing. He could possibly be called a romantic. Look at the way he keeps remembering his wife (I forget her name). He even feels for the girls working at brothels. But he knows that no one is going to take him seriously - less so if he acts all kind and encouraging. So he shrugs off emotions (or tries to) and acts tough. To put it bluntly, he knows how to play the game of thrones, even if he doesn't want to.

For me, it's how he is in A Dance With Dragons that forms the point at which I start to find him a bit irritating again. He's truly been through the mill at that point, and even here he doesn't stop with the clever lines. Though to be fair, I think that's why a lot of fans adore him, for his sharp tongue, and that might be why Martin chose to keep him that way. I agree he's a bit of a romantic, and that's probably his most interesting characteristic - he maintains an illusion that the women in the brothels love him for himself and not the money he has.

Originally Posted by Galadriel 55

I agree. Although I loved him for all his honourable traits, he deserved what he got. (do I hear some muttering? ) At Winterfell, where he and his justice ruled, he did fine - and got proper respect for that. But down south money is worth more than all his goodness and justice and etc. He couldn't get used to such a way of life, and wasn't fit for the game of thrones. But what really made him grey instead of white in my eyes was how he didn't stick to his honour till the end. Fine - if you value virtues above your life and the lives of those around you, so be it, don't listen to that fat ugly man telling you that you should turn around and lie to yourself and to others saying that you lied before to save your skin! And if you value truth so much, don't let it die with you! He belongs in the north, and that's that.

However, despite this, I have to give Ned his due respect for doing what he thought was right. He couldn't help it if what he thought and what others thought did not match, just as he couldn't help asking if honesty was always right.

Interestingly, I viewed Ned as being painted as fairly 'white' all the way through A Game of Thrones, as a man who would stand by his honour no matter what. That's why he agrees to go and serve the King even if it's not what is in the best interests of him, his family and his people.

In the end, he did a bad thing like so many other characters. In going off to be The Hand, he broke his family apart and left his small children to the mercies of fate. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sits and thinks "If only..." Of course, half the story wouldn't exist if he hadn't gone, but it was his pride in his honour that led to his children suffering.

What fascinates me is how there's a really slow revelation about certain things which happened in the past, in the youth of Ned, Robert, Jaime and Rhaegar. I get the feeling that I'm going to learn at some point (once he gets the story firing up again...) exactly why Ned was so wedded to 'honour'.

I think the worst of all the characters for me has to be Gregor Clegane - a truly horrible man. Though some others run him close though I don't know how far you are with the books so I won't do spoilers

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Interestingly, I viewed Ned as being painted as fairly 'white' all the way through A Game of Thrones, as a man who would stand by his honour no matter what. That's why he agrees to go and serve the King even if it's not what is in the best interests of him, his family and his people.

That's not what made him grey. It's his treason to himself that made him so - one that he thought would save some lives. It's not his fault that it didn't, but if you're so stubborn about honour, be stubborn till the end.

Originally Posted by Lal

I think the worst of all the characters for me has to be Gregor Clegane - a truly horrible man. Though some others run him close though I don't know how far you are with the books so I won't do spoilers

I can agree that he's a horrible man, but he's a beautiful character. And his brother the Hound even more so (as a character, not actually... ). I actually like Sandor Clegane a lot. He's the most interesting beast in a Beauty and the Beast thing. But I actually like that one for more than being an interesting character. Somehow he's closer to being a Ned than all these "honourable" true knights... The good, white Ned...

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I can agree that he's a horrible man, but he's a beautiful character. And his brother the Hound even more so (as a character, not actually... ). I actually like Sandor Clegane a lot. He's the most interesting beast in a Beauty and the Beast thing. But I actually like that one for more than being an interesting character. Somehow he's closer to being a Ned than all these "honourable" true knights... The good, white Ned...

Gregor I never liked, but Sandor is quite interesting. I know that he's utterly ruthless, but for some reason I can't seem to think he's all bad.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That was a joke, G55.

Why do I always take jokes seriously and joke about serious stuff?

Originally Posted by Galadriel

And I can't believe I'm saying this, but...Jaime Lannister is slowly working his way up, too!

After a certain chapter of (supposedly) truthtelling, he went up my list as well!

Theon is the lowest on my list. He's such a low treacherous arrogant ungrateful big-headed coward!

Originally Posted by Lal

I don't think I could idolise any of the characters in A Song Of Ice and Fire, not even Ned Stark, it's not a world of heroes and villains.

I agree. Although I loved him for all his honourable traits, he deserved what he got. (do I hear some muttering? ) At Winterfell, where he and his justice ruled, he did fine - and got proper respect for that. But down south money is worth more than all his goodness and justice and etc. He couldn't get used to such a way of life, and wasn't fit for the game of thrones. But what really made him grey instead of white in my eyes was how he didn't stick to his honour till the end. Fine - if you value virtues above your life and the lives of those around you, so be it, don't listen to that fat ugly man telling you that you should turn around and lie to yourself and to others saying that you lied before to save your skin! And if you value truth so much, don't let it die with you! He belongs in the north, and that's that.

However, despite this, I have to give Ned his due respect for doing what he thought was right. He couldn't help it if what he thought and what others thought did not match, just as he couldn't help asking if honesty was always right.


Stannis is quite the intriguing character in the second half of the second book. If he'd only listen a bit more to some people around him! (You know, he, Viserys, and Theon remind me of the Hamptons - both father and son - from P&A :-D )


I have a feeling I'm getting as obsessed with talking about the Song of Ice and Fire as I was about a year ago with talking Tolkien. :/

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I did a worse one on Amazon Some parts of the book were intriguing and could have been worked on, but for the most part it was just...ugh.

Yes, I am very eloquent.

Well, good for you. Pretty much all the reviews I've seen not only rave about the series' brilliance, they lavish praise on the "original" plotting and "deep, complex" characterisation. I mean, what the–? Yes, I know it's all in the eye of the beholder, and all that– but really, I was left wondering, "Have we been reading the same book?"