Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
01-03-2012, 06:05 PM | #1 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 72
|
Elrond in PJ's LotR
How do you feel about the portrayal of Elrond in Peter Jackson's films? Is he as you imagined him to be, both in appearance and personality?
There is one character whom I think was PERFECTLY portrayed, and that is Gandalf. Would anyone disagree with the general portrayal of Gandalf was on the mark? I don't mean so much the incidents (major deviations from Tolkien's characterization of Gandalf in RotK) but Ian McKellen sort of "being" Gandalf. |
01-03-2012, 07:40 PM | #2 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God. |
||
01-03-2012, 08:30 PM | #3 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,365
|
I think their appearance was fine, but their personalities were butchered.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
01-04-2012, 07:21 AM | #4 | |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
|
When I think of the description of Elrond in The Hobbit:
Quote:
It's different with MovieGandalf - he really does look like the book description, but unfortunately, at times his role is changed, so that I remind myself that he was actually too great to cringe before the Witch King and would not use physical violence. I re-read the books more often than I re-watch the movies, so I can hang on to Tolkien's own depiction of characters rather than having PJ's versions take over my imagination.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
|
01-04-2012, 07:52 AM | #5 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
Quote:
Some of the fim actors I prefer to the radio ones .. Sean Bean (despite the accent - seemed weird that he spoke Yorkshire when his father and brother spoke Oxford english), Viggo Mortensen, Cate Blanchett, others as good but Michael Hordern as Gandalf and Holm, Nighy and Woodthorpe as Frodo Sam and gollum are unbeatable for me...
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
|
01-05-2012, 11:04 AM | #6 |
Laconic Loreman
|
I like Hugo Weaving...don't like him as Elrond. Or, I should say, I imagine he could have done the warmer, noble, and wise Elf Lord quite well, but Jackson didn't want that Elrond. My image of BookElrond is a librarian, and movies he came off as a grump and a manipulative father to boot.
I feel kind of the same with John Rhys-Davies. Definitely a talented actor, who could have made a fine Gimli with some good direction. But I feel Jackson embraced the crude and ridiculous humor because he thought it would get laughs. Maybe it did, but Jackson's idea of humor doesn't appeal to me.
__________________
Fenris Penguin
|
01-05-2012, 01:28 PM | #7 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
Yes I adore Hugo and I don't think he was miscast. I think the Elrond part was badly written. He was virtually creepy in TTT ... I keep on thinking of Elrond in Pyjamas when I read this thread title....
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
01-08-2012, 02:08 PM | #8 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: As my whimsey takes me.
Posts: 43
|
Quote:
Elrond is one of my favorite characters in all the Midde-Earth canon. Hugo Weaving is an amazing actor and really does look the part. I don't think he was miscast, but I do think the part for him was written badly. Elrond started out grouchy and cranky in LOTR and just got worse. By ROTK he was the typical creepy overprotective dad who chases his daughter's boyfriends away and convinces her to leave. Not very well done in my opinion.
__________________
"One equal temper of heroic hearts,Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. " Tennyson, Ulysses |
|
01-08-2012, 02:37 PM | #9 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
There is a thread with an episode by episode discussion somewhere including welcome contributions from Mr Sibley himself. We never quite finished alas... I find it interesting that I love in that adaptation the bits I tend to skim in the book. The handling of Sam, Frodo and Gollum is wonderful IMO Bill Nighy, perhaps suprisingly in the light of the rather louche roles he tends to get now is great as Sam, Woodthorpe is vastly superior to Serkis IMO .. and Radio Faramir..... is all he should be.
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
01-28-2012, 02:08 PM | #10 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
|
Quote:
I think the only reason McKellan's Gandalf was not more powerful for me was that Horden had already provided, for me, the definitive Gandalf. And Mithalwen, I'd add John McAndrew's Pippin, Andrew Seear's Faramir, and Douglas Livingstone's Gimli to the list of unbeatables you cite. But back to the thread title, Elrond was one of the characters of whom I never really had a visual image in my mind. I did not see him as manipulative, though, and his character was certainly twisted and used to drive the plot and the tension. Neither do I think Elrond - or indeed Tolkien - would have considered Isildur in the light that PJ's Elrond appears to. Reminds me of the Parodic Precis of Bakshi's LOTR on the Tolkien Sarcasm Page: "Ha! Some hero: Isildur the backstabbing sneak." |
|
01-28-2012, 07:04 PM | #11 | |
Wight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio. Believe it or not.
Posts: 145
|
Quote:
THAT'S probably why he was always so grumpy looking!
__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the interwebs. That's how World War 1 got started! |
|
01-28-2012, 08:12 PM | #12 | |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 129
|
Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlAeJPk63Ks in the episode from the extended edition, we have such Elrond and Hugo was perfectly able to create him. The blame is on PJ. |
|
01-28-2012, 08:24 PM | #13 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
|
Have you seen the Russian parody films, "The Trouble Of The Rings?" He does walk through Rivendell in a bathrobe in that.
|
01-28-2012, 09:00 PM | #14 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,365
|
Quote:
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
|
01-29-2012, 12:54 AM | #15 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 47
|
Gr8
I think he was gr8 it worked really well. I cannot imagine anyone else.
|
01-29-2012, 06:21 AM | #16 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
Quote:
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
|
01-29-2012, 09:15 AM | #17 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
|
Quote:
On the topic of Elrond, the twinkly stars around his head in the Rankin-Bass cartoon were quite memorable. Hugo Weaving's Elrond does not exactly come across as "as kind as summer," but not only was he driving the plot with urgency, Gandalf was being portrayed as the more compassionate of the two: "It is a burden he should never have been asked to bear. We can ask no more of Frodo," versus "Our list of allies grows thin," etc. |
|
01-29-2012, 11:32 AM | #18 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In Eldamar beside the walls of Elven Tirion
Posts: 551
|
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Quote:
End of rant.
__________________
"Hey! Come derry dol! Can you hear me singing?" – Tom Bombadil |
||
01-29-2012, 11:44 AM | #19 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,365
|
I think Elrond looks alright. I mean, the costume and hair and etc are good. But his role and character are in ruins. Although I can't stand the movie Elrond for what was mentioned before (arrogant, frowning, etc) I have to give him credit for a good physical appearance.
Just compare him to Arwen - she looks nothing like I would imagine her to be, and don't get me started on how she acts.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
01-29-2012, 01:31 PM | #20 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
Quote:
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
|
01-29-2012, 01:43 PM | #21 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
|
Actually I agree with you, Mithalwen. I was quite shocked at how manipulative the films made Elrond, but I was shocked at how several of the characters were portrayed. It's why the movies never really worked that well for me - enjoyable to see as films, but not as adaptations of a most beloved book that I could watch again and again. Visually spectacular, and with some very fine moments. But character portrayal tends to be more important to me than landscape and other visuals.
At least the wardrobe department did well. Very well, in fact. He did come across more human in a much later scene with Arwen - "Do not I also have your love?" But - "Welcome to Rivendell, Frodo Baggins" (cue very-mature-Gorgonzola-strength-cheese expression from Frodo) - oh dear. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against changes in adaptations. I only object when said changes seriously mangle the characters, and it's perfectly possible to change and adapt without doing this. |
01-29-2012, 02:08 PM | #22 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
Lol - I thought that scene was deeply creepy Dad and totally not the Elrond of the books. But I do remember a few examples of a lovely smile. But my issue is with the script not Hugo (who I have adored since I was 13..which is a little while ago now *ahem*. But while I saw the films I have never managed to sit through the later ones again. I loved the costumes, many of the sets and much of the casting. But I too would have preferred more characterisation and was bored to sobs during the endless tedious battle scenes. Especially sinceI knew how they were done. I did enjoy the Science Museum exhibition. I did feel that the costume, prop, set designers really loved Tolkien in a way I suspect PJ does not. Anyway I was not the target demographic. All inall rather peripheral to my love of Tolkien.
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
04-09-2012, 02:59 PM | #23 |
Newly Deceased
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2
|
Elrond in PJ's LotR
I saw this thread before and was thinking about it when I watched the movies last, and I think the way they portrayed Elrond made quite a bit of difference on Aragorn and on the nature of the kingship of Gondor.
This Elrond, it seemed like, has little to no regard for men as a race, and he talks bitterly about Isildur in particular. He almost speaks as if the whole mess was Isildur's fault, which seems slightly unfair. The movies give no reason to believe Isildur was a bad guy or bad king. He screwed up once, an Elrond hasn't forgiven him in however many generations. So, okay, he's a bitter old grouch. But I think, if you think about the fact that he was raising Isildur's heir, you might attribute the changes in Aragorn's character to Elrond's bad attitude. Movie-Aragorn doubts himself. He doesn't really want the kingdom. He doesn't want to reveal himself as Isildur's heir, or even as anybody except some guy when he first mets Boromir. Book Aragorn was much surer of himself and his claim, and is quick to step up and say, "Sword that was broken? Right here. Check this out!" Couldn't being raised by somebody who hates and doubts your race and your ancestor be just the thing to make that difference? I also thought it was interesting that Elrond in the movie keeps the shards of Narsil, where in the book it clearly belonged to Aragorn. Later on, when Aragorn goes into the paths of the dead, it's that sword that proves his claim to the throne. So, if Elrond has the sword, doesn't that in some sense give him some power to approve or deny a claim to the throne? It may not be desicive; Gondor may choose to accept a king without the sword as proof of his heritage. Oh - except that they'd have been mostly dead, if the Oath-Breakers hadn't showed up with Aragorn because of the sword. I think it's an interesting, and kind of unpleasant, implication if the crown is not awarded based on the individual's character and claim, but because some guy over in Imladris has decided, "Okay, okay, Arwen! Fine! Your boyfriend can have the sword already!" Interesting choices. |
04-09-2012, 05:42 PM | #24 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,455
|
To be fair, the shards of Narsil being at Imladris is pretty low on the list of alterations even for me, though I appreciate what you say about it being his proof. Carrying around a broken sword is a bit impractical however symbolic especially when you do need an actual sword. Film Aragorn does conspicuously wear the ring of Barahir which isn't IIRC explained in the films which might have some clout and in the books other surviving heirlooms are kept for safe keeping (sceptre of Annuminas for example).
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
|
|