TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

first things first: that was one of the most useless D1 lynches ever.

The owl of Minerva flies after dusk... It's always easy to be wise on hindsight.

On another issue, why is it that I suggested lynching Bom a find (Pom) or a good find (Pitch)? *Bom-Pom*

That's not exactly a secret. And I think I speculated on that possibility even earlier. And as Pom says correctly, I almost talked myself out of it, but then the voting kind of did the choice for me.

I was willing to discuss with the people around then (about 15 minutes before the DL or something) of the possibilities between Bom, Boro and G55 but had to take a phone-call from my colleague and when I came back people were already voting for Bom which kind of made it futile to vote differently as I had nothing against Lommy.

Just go and check.

Okay. Off now for a while.

[Pitchwife]

Now, Rikae.

An interesting detail is where she says

Originally Posted by Rikae #42

it may be more logical to leave Inzil alone for toDay precisely because he has made himself a target.

(underlining mine). Did someone read that as a hunter hint?

Her response to G55's tantrum actually sounds to me like she was satisfied with the response she got ("...I did").

Although she suggested leaving Zil be, she ended up voting him; he was clearly her #1 suspect and thus, I think, her most likely hunting pick - which makes me doubt that he had a hand in killing her, it would have been rather suicidal.

I'm confused by the whole wabbit/coyote thing. The coyote looks like a reference to Boro's avie, but what's a wabbit anyway? *googles*

Originally Posted by wikipedia

A wabbit is a type of self-replicating computer program. Unlike viruses, wabbits do not infect host programs or documents. Unlike worms, wabbits do not use network capabilities of computers to spread. Instead, a wabbit repeatedly replicates itself on a local computer. Wabbits can be programmed to have (malicious) side effects.[1] An example of a wabbit is a fork bomb. The name "wabbit" is probably derived from Elmer Fudd's derhotic pronunciation of 'rabbit' in the Warner Brothers cartoons that featured him and Bugs Bunny. Like rabbits, these programs have an ability to multiply quickly.

So, a sort of malware, apparently. Could be code for wolves? Or was she referring to the cartoons only (IIRC, Boro's coyote figures in those too, right?)? What the blazes is she trying to tell us here?

[Inziladun]

First off, I'm amused by people yesterDay commenting on me being "weird". For me, that's normal.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So the alcolyte is some kind of werebear. *sigh* May the victims of the Night's terror rest in peace.

If so, that makes it a lot tougher. Bears are always harder to spot, since they have no loyalty to anyone, and have a vested interest in killing wolves. I don't see much we can do about it, at any rate.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And then there is this odd thing about wabbits and coyotes & liking Greenie's vote on Boro - which whatever it means seems to suggest something about Boro.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I'm confused by the whole wabbit/coyote thing. The coyote looks like a reference to Boro's avie, but what's a wabbit anyway? *googles*

So, a sort of malware, apparently. Could be code for wolves? Or was she referring to the cartoons only (IIRC, Boro's coyote figures in those too, right?)? What the blazes is she trying to tell us here?

Yes, Elmer Fudd hunts wabbits, but the Coyote hunts the Roadrunner. Was Rikae trying to bait the wolves into thinking she was the Seer, who had dreamed Boro? But that would have meant she would have hunted Boro, and obviously, he's still with us. I don't know.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

And then there’s Legate. Last night, I was convinced enough by Shasta’s notifications that I did start suspecting him more than anyone else. I’m not too convinced about Shasta either, but he did go through the messages pretty throughoutly, and especially since I had no previous opinion on Legate, I felt it was worth checking out. And Legate, unlike some others mentioned, did have a habit of sticking into his opinions. First this whole issue with Inzil, which to me seems more his making than Inzil’s. He keeps repeating the same point over and over, and over an issue after all as minor as one “This is not what we’re supposed to be doing, let’s do something else”. I can’t see that comment of Inzil's as too fishy. It feels like something all of us must've done at some point, giving a relatively useless message at the beginning of the first day.

After all Legate's focus on me yesterDay. he went and voted for Bom. So did Eönwë, who had previously said I would be his likely vote, and offered no reason for voting Bom, other than he didn't want to vote Lommy. Why didn't either of them vote for me, instead of going after Bom? Yes, believe me, I know Bom's antics like that can be frustrating. It still looks like a very easy bandwagon, though.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

That being said, I don’t say I’d trust Boro or G55 either. But Legate is way more suspicious, Boro seems just not like himself, and I haven't yet given much thought to G55 yet.

Boro is certainly not his usual aggressive wolf-hunting self. What that means, and whether there is an RL factor, I'm not sure.

Steve and Legate worry me as well.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Now, as everyone kept saying yesterNight (can you put it like that?) Shasta was the one to start the actual bandwaggon against Bom, after suspecting around. However, it's worth noticing that he wasn't the first one to suggest it, even though he was the first to actually give his vote to Bom. First one was Nogrod.
(#113)

During his post he actually kind of talked himself out of it, but somehow it seemed more that he was giving the bait and hoping someone would go with it.

I wouldn't call it "baiting". That's rather normal - and I think it does not sound like "serious wish to lynch Bom", rather really just "anger ventilation", which is understandable.

Though some things about his willingness to flip etc. have merit, I would not lynch him purely based on this. This particular thing is rather understandable as normal reaction, I would say.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

And then there’s Legate. (...) First this whole issue with Inzil, which to me seems more his making than Inzil’s. He keeps repeating the same point over and over, and over an issue after all as minor as one “This is not what we’re supposed to be doing, let’s do something else”. I can’t see that comment of Inzil's as too fishy. It feels like something all of us must've done at some point, giving a relatively useless message at the beginning of the first day.

Now wait a second, I never said "fishy". It was never a suspicion, mind you. I get the feeling the whole Legate-Zil debate is getting completely out of its original meaning in people's interpretation and reinterpretation of it. Zil says the same thing (see below) by talking about me "suspecting" him, but I never did! (okay, later during the day I did a bit, but only because of his reaction, certainly NOT because of the matter of the fact that Zil said "let's hunt wolves instead of talking about acolyte") So to put this back to its proper lines, what it was, in other words: yes, the Legate-Inzil issue took a lot of attention during the Day, but it did NOT have anything to do with suspicion. Also I think if other people hadn't started discussing it so vehemently themselves, it would have been just an episode concerning CLARIFICATION of one's actions (not suspicion!!). Also, note that my continuous questions to Inzil were only one issue, one remark at the fringe (in the matter of importance) of my posts, which otherwise were talking about something else.

So repeating this for the last time, the issue was (narrated as I saw it back then): Zil requested from others to start "hunting wolves" yet didn't act on it himself, so I questioned that behavior, he did not react, I asked him again, he replied with the same line as in start which did not explain anything (at least to me back then), and so on, back and forth something like four times. I kept asking him only because he had not answered my question. Now he has clarified it to me by the end of yesterDay, so we're somewhere else now. But as for the origin of the discussion, what I just said.

So as to this,

Originally Posted by Inziladun

After all Legate's focus on me yesterDay. he went and voted for Bom.

There was maybe "focus", but never suspicion as strong to vote you. I had better suspects than Bom, but you were not among them. I could have voted Boro, for instance - later I basically decided that it's still fine to lynch Bom, especially on first Day, and Pitch, you have in fact summed it up:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Yes, I know, lynch a submarine on D1 if there's no better choice, and if it has to be done, better now than later,

That's basically it, I guess. This argument eventually prevailed in my mind as in the others', probably, over the anyway uncertain suspicions we might have had (and a large part of it was probably when it got rolling, which was probably mostly my doing, I humbly confess, the decisive moment - but really, I don't regret it, even in retrospect. Of course killing a Wolf would have been much better, but for Day 1, at that moment, it was a right choice, I would have probably done it again). The main basis of my vote was indeed this "if not toDay, then never" and "we can still lynch Boro tomorrow".

Which is, btw, what I shall be looking at toDay, along with Gal, as I promised.

Speaking of this all, it of course does not rule out the interior motives of some people who voted Bom, like Pitch said:

Originally Posted by Pitch

Or was there a wolf getting heat who had to be saved?

The question is who would that be - Lommy is the most logical option; the other one something like Boro or Gal or Lottie or whoknowswhat else was teoretically threatened...

But the thing is, it was basically really orchestrated by Shasta. At least from my POV, if he had not pointed it out so decisively, I wouldn't have considered voting Bom, most likely. And so basically the only logical explanation would be that Shastawolf would come up with this brilliant scheme to turn the whole village away from voting some fellow Wolf by proposing a completely new lynch. It would have been brilliant scheme, hats off to Roy Harper, but somehow I'd find it really really really bold and such things don't usually happen.

EDIT: x-ed with Boro... ugh, I've been writing this for an hour (okay, it was interrupted several times for minutes... but now I have to do also other stuff, so shall be back later)

[Pomegranate]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I wouldn't call it "baiting". That's rather normal - and I think it does not sound like "serious wish to lynch Bom", rather really just "anger ventilation", which is understandable.

Though Nogrod kept saying he's semi-serious, instead of just ranting around. And isn't that exactly what baiting is (at least that's how it would sound to me, unless you use it with slightly different definition) - not a serious wish to lynch someone (I wouldn't call Shasta's actions baiting) but some kind of reminder, "hey, you know, then there's this one... anyone? Feel like continuing this discussion?"

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Now wait a second, I never said "fishy". It was never a suspicion, mind you.

a) I didn't say you suspected, I said I didn't see that comment as fishy and
b) #44

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Somewhat fishy: - -
Inzil - This is not in fact suspicion (it's more like that what I've talked about in the beginning of this post), I simply don't understand

So you actually used exactly that term yourself.

And although you want to concentrate on the accusations about Legate-Inzil -issue, that is far from being the only thing I said about you. You went for anyone someone else suggested - except Lommy. Inzil was the one that you found yourself, correct, but then you picked up Boro from Greenie's idea and pursued that with some enthusiasm for a while, until you realised you couldn't get people to back it, and then went on with Nog about G55.

And Boro, nice to hear you sounding more like yourself already

x/ed with Legate's second

[Pomegranate]

And how I understood Boro's paragraph was that "If the night-kill was such as it was in order to set up today's lynch". That is, if the wolves killed Rikae so that they could use that to move the discussion to someone else than the suspects yesterDay, with "Hey, this guy would've had a reason to kill Rikae!"

Okay, I don't know if that was any clearer... Anyways, I'm off for food and some dancing, will be back somewhat later. And I'm going to have to vote early toDay, I'll be travelling for the last four hours or so of the day (and preferably sleeping before that, but we'll see).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Though Nogrod kept saying he's semi-serious, instead of just ranting around. And isn't that exactly what baiting is (at least that's how it would sound to me, unless you use it with slightly different definition) - not a serious wish to lynch someone (I wouldn't call Shasta's actions baiting) but some kind of reminder, "hey, you know, then there's this one... anyone? Feel like continuing this discussion?"

Mhm - generally, baiting works more along the lines of "(insert several paraghraphs about various issues) --- Also, I think XY seems a bit strange with this and that. I am not sure if it is something, but it might be. Maybe we should look at it." This was a bit too outright (and said in the tone of sort of-exaggeration) in order for it to be baiting.

a) I didn't say you suspected, I said I didn't see that comment as fishy and

Well, "fishy" to me is used in the context of suspecting people. Okay, I see, I have used that in the post 44 as the general "headline" of the section of the weirdest people around, but that was generalizing; I said in the post itself, as you can read there, that I don't in fact suspect Inzil.

And although you want to concentrate on the accusations about Legate-Inzil -issue, that is far from being the only thing I said about you. You went for anyone someone else suggested - except Lommy. Inzil was the one that you found yourself, correct, but then you picked up Boro from Greenie's idea and pursued that with some enthusiasm for a while, until you realised you couldn't get people to back it, and then went on with Nog about G55.

Strong words once again, but I would also ask you to reconsider looking at it also from a different perspective. Also, I came up with Boro after seeing he was really acting non-innocentBoro-ishly, and later you followed on what I had said about him. I did not "realise I could not get people to back it", I continued having him as my top suspect, as you can read yourself (before I finally decided to vote Bom). I considered G55 after her vote, but I was saying from the beginning that I would not probably vote her on that day, but keep her for later. If I really wanted to e.g. save Lommy, I would not have split opinions (and votes!) in that way - stirring up suspicion of G55 and at the same time not wishing to vote her myself. Also, I had noted some (though just little) suspicious stuff about her already earlier.

[Nogrod]

Lommy and Greenie are at my place and we have two laptops - and we're also intent in doing some other stuff but werewolf tonight, so our activity will be somewhat reduced and scanty this evening (RL).

[A Little Green]

First off - Lommy confuses me a lot at the moment.

Originally Posted by Lommy, underlining mine

I can understand Lottie, who's been suspecting me quite consistently (although misguidedly), an even G55 follows a sort of line of thought but Eruhen? Where did that come from? That was pure bandwagoning, methinks.

This looked fishy to me, the need to emphasize her own innocence in a context where it wasn't called for. Some players do that all the time, but I don't think Lommy is one of those so it struck me as odd. On the other hand, the following

Originally Posted by Lommy

This quote strikes me as terribly self-conscious. Why say "I've said very little about her" instead of "I have made very few suspicious observations of her on my own"? Innocents tend to keep track on what they have thought about others, wolves what they have said about others. I have to check the context of this because it basically rockets G55 towards the top of my suspicion list if the context doesn't clarify anything!

looked quite okay to me, a sharp sort of point I'm not sure a wolf would come up with.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Did someone read that as a hunter hint?

A Hunter hint? Why on earth would a Hunter leave hints?

Originally Posted by Legate

But the thing is, it was basically really orchestrated by Shasta. At least from my POV, if he had not pointed it out so decisively, I wouldn't have considered voting Bom, most likely. And so basically the only logical explanation would be that Shastawolf would come up with this brilliant scheme to turn the whole village away from voting some fellow Wolf by proposing a completely new lynch. It would have been brilliant scheme, hats off to Roy Harper, but somehow I'd find it really really really bold and such things don't usually happen.

Err- what? Not entirely sure I get this point, or rather, I get the point all right but didn't get the framework. Anyhow, yes, if someone started it, I'd say it was Shasta, regardless of that Nogrod suggested it first. I know Shasta is brilliant as a wolf and I wouldn't put something like this past him, but nothing really points that way in my opinion. Unless he and Lommy are in cahoots, but I've not seen anything that would really support that, either. I'm more curious about Eonwe.

[Nogrod]

Just a few thoughts for now.

Thinking about it again has led me to this kind of thoughts:
- Rikae was a logical hunter.
- As can be read from the tally, Eruhen was an ordo and thus not hunted down by Rikae.
- So no hunter-kill taking place means she was not hunting any of the four wolves.

So... if she hunted Inzil or Boro (two that would have seen most likely by what happened yesterDay), then she failed aka. the one she hunted is not a wolf.

Now it is also quite possible - and maybe even probable - that being the crafty player she was, she was not hunting any of those she suspected aloud.

Whatever the case in regards to the former, it looks fairly certain she tried to make herself look like a hunter (if she thought enough many would have gotten that Looney Tunes hint). So she was luring the wolves to try her (in case the wolves were not in her suspicions so that they dared to try it).

But that would then also mean she was comfortable with her hunting-pick, or just plain taking risks. And we'll probably never know whom she picked.

*AArrggh*

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The owl of Minerva flies after dusk... It's always easy to be wise on hindsight.

If I hadn't come online late and been busy writing my own voting post while the Bom-votes piled up, you can bet I'd have said as much yesterEve. But of course you have only my word for that, so yeah, well.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

On another issue, why is it that I suggested lynching Bom a find (Pom) or a good find (Pitch)?

Because it does make a difference whether Shasta started the whole thing by himself or took the lead from you, doesn't it? Pom says it better than I can.