TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Pitchwife]

Lommy, sinceyou quote Pom quoting that post from you about G55 from Day 1, let me ask you: did you never write an analysis or something during the Night phase in order to post it on the next Day, not knowing whether you'd be alive to do so?

I'm asking because this point you made against G55 (that she couldn't be sure she'd be alive unless she was a wolf etc.) seemed horribly constructed to me at the time, but it got buried under other matters and I forgot to comment on it.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Lommy, sinceyou quote Pom quoting that post from you about G55 from Day 1, let me ask you: did you never write an analysis or something during the Night phase in order to post it on the next Day, not knowing whether you'd be alive to do so?

I'm asking because this point you made against G55 (that she couldn't be sure she'd be alive unless she was a wolf etc.) seemed horribly constructed to me at the time, but it got buried under other matters and I forgot to comment on it.

I once made some points in my head and wrote them down so I could post them the next Day, and got killed of course. After that, no. It's not necessarily just that I don't want to gamble on being alive, it might also be laziness: when I'm an ordo, I gladly take the Nights as my days off from the game and continue thinking in the next Day phase. Anyway, my suspicion of people who write analyses overNight is not just because I don't do it myself, but also because in one early game I played, a wolf was caught precisely because of her (I think it was Brinniel) certainity of being alive the next Day.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I once made some points in my head and wrote them down so I could post them the next Day, and got killed of course. After that, no. It's not necessarily just that I don't want to gamble on being alive, it might also be laziness: when I'm an ordo, I gladly take the Nights as my days off from the game and continue thinking in the next Day phase. Anyway, my suspicion of people who write analyses overNight is not just because I don't do it myself, but also because in one early game I played, a wolf was caught precisely because of her (I think it was Brinniel) certainity of being alive the next Day.

I usually don't do much at Nights myself as an ordo, but last game I wrote a lengthy analysis of Shasta the very Night I was killed; so from my perspective, G55 didn't even have to be sure she'd be alive, she just had not to have a reason to expect that she specifically would die that Night. Apparently your mileage varies.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I usually don't do much at Nights myself as an ordo, but last game I wrote a lengthy analysis of Shasta the very Night I was killed; so from my perspective, G55 didn't even have to be sure she'd be alive, she just had not to have a reason to expect that she specifically would die that Night. Apparently your mileage varies.

I never do, not because I'm particulary worried about being axed at night, but because I don't know how the night death will effect my opinions going into the next day. Also, I like seeing/weighing reactions to the night death from people before doing anything else.

My guess though is this is something that varies from person to person, whether someone does or doesn't isn't in anyway a solid reason for suspicion. It may raise some red flags on someone as in..."Wait if you were so sure you were going to be alive...? = wolfy." But it's still a personal judgement call and I would prefer not to get into "What is this person thinking when they assume to be alive next day and write a post during a night?" That's making things way too complicated for yourself.

[Boromir88]

Last post crossed with Greenie, one thing you mis-interpretted:

- clarifies that the double-lynch idea wasn't serious; mentions possible trios of Legate-Lottie-Shasta and Lommy-Sally-Shasta

Actually, Boro, the names of Lommy and Lottie keep coming up, first on Day 2, then yesterDay; care to share why the two of them? And why Sally? Why those trios?

My talk of "this trio" or "that trio" I was using as sarcastic examples and expressing why I was annoyed yesterday. I mean that originated as Nog's argument to try to defend himself "Eonwe-G55-Boro, wolf-conspiracy to attack me!"

And yesterday there was a lot of continued "well these people are together, and there's this trio"...which flat out annoys me. Not that it's not good to point these out for a future reference but like I said yesterday, I suck at multi-tasking. Let me finish/complete one thing at a time and all this chatter of wolf-trio here and wolf-trio there was system overload/distracting from current task of Legate and/or Shasta = Boro brain combustion:

Originally Posted by 372

I'm well aware there are more spies than just Legate a/o Shasta, but I am perhaps the worst multi-tasker you'll ever know. Give me one thing to do. I'll execute it and then move on to the next thing. Asking me to jumble all these ideas of a Legate-Shasta-Pitch, Shasta-Lommy-Greenie, Legate-sally-Lommy spy combinations is a processing overload for me. So unless you want my brain to explode, let me go about my business one step at a time. Starting with either Legate or Shasta today. Comprende?

Post 378, responding to Legate (bolding mine)

And relax. I wasn't being serious with that double lynch, but expressing my annoyance at both of you, and overall annoyance at this "Legate-Lottie-Shasta" "Lommy-sally-Shasta" spy-trifecta chatter today. Annoyed to the point where, at this time I couldn't care less if either you or Shasta were lynched, therefor you could both go. Give a few hours to have some hot chocolate, watch some guilty pleasure/trash and I'll be significantly less annoyed.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Boro

My talk of "this trio" or "that trio" I was using as sarcastic examples and expressing why I was annoyed yesterday. I mean that originated as Nog's argument to try to defend himself "Eonwe-G55-Boro, wolf-conspiracy to attack me!"

And yesterday there was a lot of continued "well these people are together, and there's this trio"...which flat out annoys me. Not that it's not good to point these out for a future reference but like I said yesterday, I suck at multi-tasking. Let me finish/complete one thing at a time and all this chatter of wolf-trio here and wolf-trio there was system overload/distracting from current task of Legate and/or Shasta = Boro brain combustion

Ah, I see. Fair enough. Nevertheless, you did say you were wary of Lommy and Lottie and would explain later. I know it might be old already, but just for the record, what was it about?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Ah, I see. Fair enough. Nevertheless, you did say you were wary of Lommy and Lottie and would explain later. I know it might be old already, but just for the record, what was it about?

Oi, that's going back a ways. I can't remember Lottie off the top of my head, other than been too focused on others to pay close attention to her. But yesterday her posts about the acolyte struck me as good, and thus, just forgetting about her existance.

Lommy, I do, because I'm rather terrible in how I sort of give preferential treatment to people. I noticed Lommy immediately and her early day 1 posts were more frantic and ranty than usual. I mean I know they can look like she's constantly in argument with herself, but to start off frantic and ranting about random votes...if you were with me you could have seen the "?" above my head. I didn't say anything immediately, for the simple fact that I hadn't played with Lommy in so long, I didn't want to immediately start after her. So I went with "I notice her. Watch."

With everything yesterday I forgot about a lot of people, but

...Well, glad I refreshed the page before I continued on with this ramble post of made up garbage...

Touche Lommy. Touche.

[Thinlómien]

I guess now is the time to do this, before people start voting:

I'm the acolyte.

I only learnt this last Night (and I have to say it has quite nicely ruined my day of supposed essay-writing.) I got to pick my side, and it wasn't really a choice. I picked the village - some people may know I always side with the goodies, but also I would have felt very unfair changing sides when the wolves already have an upper hand and I myself have played lousily as an ordo.

I'm basically like a weaker seer. I get to dream every Night, but there's 50% chance I dream of someone else than I wanted to.

Last Night I chose and succeeded to dream of Boro, who is a wolf.

Based on his going after Shasta so strongly toDay, I think he's 90% likely to be innocent.

(Also, just to venture a bit further, I wouldn't be surprised if Boro and Pom were packmates. If Pom is a wolf, then I doubt Lottie is one, since she just suggested Boro and Pom are wolves together. Greenie drawing so much attention to him would also be a little risky at this point, so my best guess is Boro-Pom-Sally or if not, then Boro-Pom-Pitch.)

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Last Night I chose and succeeded to dream of Boro, who is a wolf.

HA! I knew it was worth it not to go to bed just yet. I'm inclined to believe Lommy, partly because I find Boro a much likelier wolf than Lommy, partly because I can't see why a Lommywolf would try something like that (unless it's purely for sport, but I doubt she'd do that).

[Pitchwife]

What?

If that is true, what the heck was Sally's #446 about?

[Pomegranate]

On Boro being nice to me - until today (as I mentioned before) everyone has been nice to me. I can't answer to that. And me playing cautiously, Lottie: Look at yourself. I have at least thrown some suspicions (Legate, Nog, I guestioned Shasta, just now I'm having problems with Lommy and - let's face it, yourself (though I hate suspecting people right after they have suspected me, I agree with Pitch - I had forgotten Lottie's existence, and looked through her).

So, Lottie's posts from yesterday.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I actually thought this was a good point. The way I see it, there are only four reasons why the Acolyte killed Eruhen.

Option A: The Acolyte is a were-bear and kills every Night. This was proved false by the lack of a kill last Night.

Option B1: The Acolyte is a type of were-bear that kills every so often and wants the village (and spies) to all die. This is possible, and the only possible option where the Acolyte is definitively evil.

Option B2: The Acolyte still kills every so often, but xe doesn't necessarily want the village to all die. Xe killed Eruhen because xe thought Eruhen was a spy, and used his "every so often" kill to take out a potential spy, but was mistaken.

Option C: The Acolyte took the role of the person xe killed, and is now an ordo.

I won't go so far as to say it's more likely that the Acolyte isn't necessarily on our side, but it's not impossible, so I'm definitely not comfortable with writing the Acolyte off as evil as a matter of course.

(On acolyte killing Eru - no opinions on who's suspicious etc.)

Originally Posted by Loslote

After Legate's weird flip-out over Steve not revealing the Ordo yesterDay, and his dogged (and, as it seems to me at least, flimsy and grasping-at-strawsy) pursuit of Shasta (who's seemed logical and genuine, if not always right, to me this whole game), I'm very much inclined to vote him toDay. Pitchie also seems off to me, but I'm less convinced of his guilt than of Legate's.

Obviously Steve is innocent, but Lommy, Sally, and Nate also seem pretty good to me, and I'm leaning innocent on Boro, Shasta, and Zil (though hardly definitively yet!). I have no read whatsoever on Greenie, and if there's anyone else playing, I've gotten so little a read on them that I've forgotten them entirely.

Obviously, this means that one of the people in my second category are evil. For now I'm thinking it'd be more likely to be Boro and Shasta - I'm more confident about the first three I mentioned, and Zil and Greenie, for some reason, don't strike me as all that evil this game (of course, they also don't strike me as all that innocent, but that's why they're in the categories they're in).

Following with everyone else suspecting Legate, and giving vague hints about Pitch. Everyone else seems more or less innocent.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I'd be willing to consider the option of a Legate-Shasta-?Pitch? pack, at any rate.

EDIT: xed with a bunch

Originally Posted by Loslote

It would be insanely bold, but whoever survived would look very good. How much did Shasta suspect Legate before toDay? It could be the wolves decided that, since Legate was likely to be lynched for his suspicious reaction to Steve's dream, Shasta might as well come out of it looking very good.

Now, I'm not saying that this is necessarily what I think, but it is a possiblity I'm considering.

EDIT: xed with Legate

I'm sorry, who's careful? "I'm not saying that this is necessarily what I think"?

Originally Posted by Loslote

I've got to vote early, so I'll go ahead and

++Legate

For the reasons stated in my earlier post, especially his reaction to Steve's reveal. Good lynching, everyone!

I'm not comfortable, not at all. This to me seems like "I'm here, I'm saying something, but I'm not actually saying anything too much. Nothing that would in any case link me to anyone, anywhere."

Also, what was that change of opinion of Shasta mid-post? You started with "(who's seemed logical and genuine, if not always right, to me this whole game)" and ended up with putting him as the most probable of the innocent-group of yours to be a wolf. I'd say most probably you just had to figure out a reason to suspect Legate, so that you wouldn't seem you're just following others. But tell us, what were you thinking?

x/ed with Greenie and Boro

[Pomegranate]

Lommy, I agree I was vague. To clarify: On point 1, it's bad for both gifteds and wolves alike to seem suspicious, and coming up with a point against someone out of nowhere (as in, a point that hasn't been vocalised before, even if you have had it in your mind) does easily seem such. Point is, gifteds do have a reason to be self-conscious. On point 2: In fact, the Ranger in this game can protect herself (go check the admin thread if you want to - I did). I don't know if Gal did so, but she had the possibility to know she was to survive a night kill attempt.

x/ed with Lommy

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pom

On point 1, it's bad for both gifteds and wolves alike to seem suspicious, and coming up with a point against someone out of nowhere (as in, a point that hasn't been vocalised before, even if you have had it in your mind) does easily seem such. Point is, gifteds do have a reason to be self-conscious.

I agree that gifteds don't want to seem suspicious, but unlike the seer and the hunter, in normal conditions the ranger has no special reason to watch whom she suspects aloud. So given that I knew Gal wasn't the hunter and thought she wasn't the seer, her keeping so much track on what she had said instead of what she had thought made me immediately alarmed.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

On point 2: In fact, the Ranger in this game can protect herself (go check the admin thread if you want to - I did). I don't know if Gal did so, but she had the possibility to know she was to survive a night kill attempt.

In that case, it's my mistake. I assumed she can't, as usual, and obviously didn't pay enough attention to the rules. (I'm sorry, I hate it when people don't read the rules and justify their actions based on that.)


PS. Also if you are a wolf, this:

Originally Posted by Pom

If she [me] isn’t a wolf, here is a good reason why the wolves realised to kill G55.

literally makes me hit my head with stuff.

[A Little Green]

A quick summary of Boro; banter (not that there really was that), "I'm here" -posts, and the like excluded. Italicized parts are commentary.

Day 1

- attempts to settle heated feelings between Gal and Rikae; Gal's reaction to Rikae suspicious anyway
- not happy about my vote for him but doesn't find it suspicious; slightly defends Lommy from Gal (who suspected her based on her excessive use of the word 'weird'); disagrees with Nog and further argues his suspicion of Gal
- clarifies Nate's ww background for Legate, compliments her and tells himself to refrain from doing that (after being suspected for being too nice by, I think, at least myself and Legate)

Day 2

- ”not happy with what's going on with Eruhen/Acolyte stuff”; speculates about Rikae's death: ”Wolves saw Rikae as a threat/gifted and as a means to manipulate the suspicions/lynch today.”; feels a lot better about Gal, suspects Nog for his unusual hesitancy to take the lead; Pitch, Lommy and Lottie make him wary, promises to elaborate
- clarifies his point about Rikae; elaborates on Pitch, saying his uneasiness has to do with Pitch's scolding re Bom-lynch; slightly defends the reasoning behind the lynch; says he would have voted Gal but wouldn't have been opposed to lynching Bom
- says a wolf-Steve wouldn't gain much by accusing Nog so strongly; further discusses Nog's role in the Bomwagon
- thinks Pitch's explanation of his post on the Bom-lynch looks fine; disagrees with Legate about himself acting polished; says he's ”even more conflicted about Nogrod”, though most of the posts he quotes when elaborating on this he concludes are looking bad
- (after the reveal) says he's amused by Nog's desperate actions; votes Nog

Day 3

- ”Lovely, now the ranger.”

I've said it before, comments like this always make me wary, but this one isn't as bad as most, I suppose.

- suspects Shasta based on his reaction to his (Boro's) vote, says it's common knowledge he has no problem with busing his fellows (a hilarious comment if he's a wolf, btw!); says there's an acolyte-focus similarity between Nog and Shasta
- argues with Shasta about Nog's behaviour the previous Day in considerable length, and about whether or not it was necessary for Steve to reveal
- agrees with Zil about not concentrating on the acolyte
- thinks his disagreement with Shasta re. Acolyte may be a difference of playing style/point of view
- tries to calm me and Lommy down

For the record, I wasn't really angry, just a bit annoyed, and confused more than that; and Lommy's frustration had more to do with Nog's laptop deleting her post than with the game...

- says Nate has to look twenty times more suspicious to get off his ”smart, sharp player” -list

Lottie commented on this one earlier; I don't think he necessarily meant it'd have to wait until next game, but I do think writing her off as innocent and not reconsidering since is pretty odd for Boro. And actually, added to this I find it interesting that in his apology of not being himself Day 1 he says something about "why Pom and others likely noticed it wasn't my usual self"; yes, there were others, so why is Pom the one you remembered? Could be random, could not be, I honestly don't know.

- says he's had too much of Legate and Shasta for one day and would be willing to lynch either or both of them
- clarifies that the double-lynch idea wasn't serious; mentions possible trios of Legate-Lottie-Shasta and Lommy-Sally-Shasta

Actually, Boro, the names of Lommy and Lottie keep coming up, first on Day 2, then yesterDay; care to share why the two of them? And why Sally? Why those trios?

- (at almost deadline) wonders where Shasta is; ”Ok then, let's do this.”; votes Legate

Day 4

- criticizes Lommy for wanting to let Shasta off the hook though agrees with her that he shouldn't be the sole focus toDay; continues his case on Shasta
- defends his Legate-vote (despite his focus on Shasta) by saying he was suspicious of Legate but didn't speak a lot about it because he didn't have anything new to add, focused on Shasta because he thought there wasn't enough focus on him; says again he's going to keep Shasta as his top suspect but drop that discussion – and adds another point to it.


Overall?
- Especially in the beginning of the game, but also later, he's more than once taken up a role of clarifying misunderstandings and trying to calm people down
- Suspected Nog rather heavily already before Steve revealed
- Has a connection with Nate, I think
- ToDay, has kept saying he'll leave off Shasta, and doesn't

So - wolf or not? It probably doesn't come as a surprise when I say it could go either way; I'm having a bad feeling about him right now, but my gut has fooled me before. Any arguments against him are really rather weak if considered logically, but when has a Borowolf last blundered enough to allow strong arguments against him, anyway? Not sure if that makes sense, but to me it does. Just - bad gut-feeling, from reading his posts. His suspicion of Nog is a point in his favour, though (even if, knowing those two, they could totally pull off something like that as fellow wolves).


EDIT: x-ed with Lommy, Nate, another Lommy, and Pitch