Will a "definitive" version of The Silmarillion ever be released? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 03-02-2012, 08:20 AM

Galin I will respectfully disagree.

IF JRRT was involved in Sub-creation [see On Faery Stories] then his 'experiments' in various drafts can [on at least one level] be seen as a the universe trying to understand itself, this is vastly deeper and more significant than a fiction writer sitting down and using cliche formula coming up with a collection of cliche events.

This too me is why JRRT is so important and deep, he writing, living and breathing from a deep space and I put his writings [and many drafts] in the same category of relevance as Jung, Gurdjieff and a hand-full of others. Of more modern writers, J.Crowley's 'little, big' and T. Williams Otherland and War of the Flowers approach, and even the Potter series, approach the level of truth whereby their internal fabric can usefully mirror to us TRUTH on amny levels. As above - so below.

Now that being said, studying it all from the external fictional, he wrote this stuff in the 1910's-70's is ALSO a way of understanding it - just a limited and to me comparitvely shallow mine to look for jewels and ore, compared to the mythological and even spiritual levels he attained. This to me is the key as to why JRRT was author of the century, he tapped something far deeper than himself, and like a true Christian followed where he was led.

Galin · 03-02-2012, 02:06 PM

Lindil

For better clarity maybe, I'm talking about characterizing (for example) Qenta Noldorinwa as an internal variant to later versions of the same text; that is, external and superseded drafts being recharacterized by readers as collectively internal, and the Subcreated World is thus made inconsistent where Tolkien himself imagined no such inconsistency.

I think Tolkien was engaged in creating a measure of purposed inconsistency, especially between sources: the Annals versus Quenta Silmarillion for example, or the variant texts regarding Numenor -- and perhaps even a bit between the long prose versions and the brief chapters of Quenta Silmarillion, or versus the poetic versions. A perfect consistency was not only not necessary, but not intended in any case.

But I'm still not certain why this leads you to post: '... studying it all from the external fictional, he wrote this stuff in the 1910's-70's is ALSO a way of understanding it - just a limited and to me comparitvely shallow mine to look for jewels and ore,...' This seems to suggest that because of the opinion above, I must be approaching the whole of Tolkien's work in some sort of detatched scholarly manner, 'studying it all from the external fictional' of A to Z, although I'm not sure what you mean by looking for jools and ore if this is the right context.

I don't disagree with what you posted 'on at least one level'

Or do you think I must, or still do, given this post?

**lindil** · 03-02-2012, 07:35 PM

"I think Tolkien was engaged in creating a measure of purposed inconsistency, especially between sources: the Annals versus Quenta Silmarillion for example, or the variant texts regarding Numenor -- and perhaps even a bit between the long prose versions and the brief chapters of Quenta Silmarillion, or versus the poetic versions. A perfect consistency was not only not necessary, but not intended in any case."

very true, I misread a bit of your intent on the other points.

03-02-2012, 08:20 AM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Galin I will respectfully disagree. IF JRRT was involved in Sub-creation [see On Faery Stories] then his 'experiments' in various drafts can [on at least one level] be seen as a the universe trying to understand itself, this is vastly deeper and more significant than a fiction writer sitting down and using cliche formula coming up with a collection of cliche events. This too me is why JRRT is so important and deep, he writing, living and breathing from a deep space and I put his writings [and many drafts] in the same category of relevance as Jung, Gurdjieff and a hand-full of others. Of more modern writers, J.Crowley's 'little, big' and T. Williams Otherland and War of the Flowers approach, and even the Potter series, approach the level of truth whereby their internal fabric can usefully mirror to us TRUTH on amny levels. As above - so below. Now that being said, studying it all from the external fictional, he wrote this stuff in the 1910's-70's is ALSO a way of understanding it - just a limited and to me comparitvely shallow mine to look for jewels and ore, compared to the mythological and even spiritual levels he attained. This to me is the key as to why JRRT was author of the century, he tapped something far deeper than himself, and like a true Christian followed where he was led. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-02-2012, 02:06 PM	#2
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,036	Lindil For better clarity maybe, I'm talking about characterizing (for example) Qenta Noldorinwa as an internal variant to later versions of the same text; that is, external and superseded drafts being recharacterized by readers as collectively internal, and the Subcreated World is thus made inconsistent where Tolkien himself imagined no such inconsistency. I think Tolkien was engaged in creating a measure of purposed inconsistency, especially between sources: the Annals versus Quenta Silmarillion for example, or the variant texts regarding Numenor -- and perhaps even a bit between the long prose versions and the brief chapters of Quenta Silmarillion, or versus the poetic versions. A perfect consistency was not only not necessary, but not intended in any case. But I'm still not certain why this leads you to post: '... studying it all from the external fictional, he wrote this stuff in the 1910's-70's is ALSO a way of understanding it - just a limited and to me comparitvely shallow mine to look for jewels and ore,...' This seems to suggest that because of the opinion above, I must be approaching the whole of Tolkien's work in some sort of detatched scholarly manner, 'studying it all from the external fictional' of A to Z, although I'm not sure what you mean by looking for jools and ore if this is the right context. I don't disagree with what you posted 'on at least one level' Or do you think I must, or still do, given this post? Last edited by Galin; 03-03-2012 at 12:15 AM.

03-02-2012, 07:35 PM	#3
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	"I think Tolkien was engaged in creating a measure of purposed inconsistency, especially between sources: the Annals versus Quenta Silmarillion for example, or the variant texts regarding Numenor -- and perhaps even a bit between the long prose versions and the brief chapters of Quenta Silmarillion, or versus the poetic versions. A perfect consistency was not only not necessary, but not intended in any case." very true, I misread a bit of your intent on the other points. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.