WW XCVI - Admin thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kitanna · 05-23-2012, 06:47 PM

White wolves invade Eriador from the North. One village stands against the invaders.

~*~*~

Three wolves: Conspire and harass and kill every night.

One seer: Dreams of a fellow player every night.

One ranger: Protects a fellow player every night. They may self-protect, but cannot protect the same person two nights in a row.

One cobbler: Now I'd like to try something different ('cause I like to do that with the cobbler) and that is the cobbler has the chance to blind the seer or incapacitate the ranger. Each night the cobbler picks another player. If it's an ordo or a wolf, nothing happens. If the cobbler hits the seer or ranger they are useless for the night. However, the cobbler cannot pick the same person twice. I.E. if the cobbler blinds the seer he/she can't target the seer again the rest of the game. When dreamt of the cobbler is revealed as an ordo. I'd like to give this a whirl, but if no one is interested I'm happy to keep the traditional cobbler role.

Otherwise this'll be a standard game.

No retractable votes.

Votes will only be counted in the following format

++Kitanna

I'll leave it up to you guys if anyone wants to have double lynchings for tied votes.

Deadline will either be at 7 am -6GMT or 8pm -6GMT. Whatever works best for everyone.

Players
Shasta - Village chandler
Menel - Traveling salesman
Glirdan - Traveling thespian
G55 - Little Red Riding Hood
Nerwen - Maid at Inzil's
Legate - Local Bard
Pitchwife - Village Shopkeep
Nogrod - Retired Barkeep
Lommy -
Inzil - Village barkeep
Aganzir - Herbalist
Sally - Town Bicycle
Kath - Woodsmith with the gammy leg

Shastanis Althreduin · 05-23-2012, 06:55 PM

I'm in!

Meneltarmacil · 05-23-2012, 07:27 PM

I like your idea for the cobbler. And I'll join as a traveling salesman of various things.

Galadriel55 · 05-23-2012, 08:29 PM

Hmm... does the cobbler get this in addition to the usual "distraction" role? (as in, does the cobbler still try to help the wolves even by sacrificing himself, if worst comes to worst, or is his priority his own survival?) I think the modified role is an interesting idea, whichever way it works. We likes it very much.

And I'm likely to be in... no, scratch that. I'm in whatever. I just hope you don't start until at least next week.

Nerwen · 05-23-2012, 08:57 PM

I'm in, of course. As if I'd miss two games in a row.

Glirdan · 05-23-2012, 09:27 PM

ARE WE DOING A BACK TO THE BASICS GAME WITH ROLES!?!?

Either way, I'm in (and if we are doing roles, I shall be a traveling thespian who can't remember his lines)

Meneltarmacil · 05-24-2012, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glirdan

ARE WE DOING A BACK TO THE BASICS GAME WITH ROLES!?!?

Either way, I'm in (and if we are doing roles, I shall be a traveling thespian who can't remember his lines)

I've been away for so long that I wasn't aware we had stopped using roles. I'd still prefer to keep them though.

Nerwen · 05-24-2012, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I've been away for so long that I wasn't aware we had stopped using roles.

We haven't, actually.

Kitanna · 05-24-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Hmm... does the cobbler get this in addition to the usual "distraction" role?

Yes and he/she has the chance to help the wolves a little more by stopping the gifteds from using their abilities.

And I encourage village roles. Then If I'm stuck on a death I can use that to help the narration.

Galadriel55 · 05-25-2012, 05:25 AM

I'll be the Little Red Riding Hood, coming to the village to see my grandmother. How appropriate that there's a wolf in that story too! Hey, she can be the first victim!

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-25-2012, 07:28 AM

Okay, I cannot yet 100% confirm my participation, but I would like to play again, and it seems there are some long-lost people present in this game

I shall at least follow this thread for the time being.

A few questions which I believe would be helpful to clarify in any case:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

One ranger: Protects a fellow player every night.

Can the Ranger protect two people in a row? Can it also protect itself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

However, the cobbler cannot pick the same person twice. I.E. if the cobbler blinds the seer he/she can't target the seer again the rest of the day.

You mean for the rest of the game, I presume?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I'll be the Little Red Riding Hood, coming to the village to see my grandmother. How appropriate that there's a wolf in that story too! Hey, she can be the first victim!

Are you volunteering for being butchered early on?

Meneltarmacil · 05-25-2012, 11:01 AM

When the Cobbler blinds the Seer or stops the Ranger, does he/she get to know that person's role?

Kitanna · 05-25-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Can the Ranger protect two people in a row? Can it also protect itself?

Yes to self protect, no to double protect

Quote:

You mean for the rest of the game, I presume?

Yes and I apparently need to learn that I must edit my posts before putting them up

Quote:

When the Cobbler blinds the Seer or stops the Ranger, does he/she get to know that person's role?

No. I'll let her/him know they've made a hit though.

Pitchwife · 05-25-2012, 02:51 PM

I'm in. It feels like ages since the last game.

Galadriel55 · 05-25-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Are you volunteering for being butchered early on?

Only if a gallant hunter will volunteer to rescue me from whoever's tummy I get to sit in. Pity there's no hunter in this game.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 05-26-2012, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Only if a gallant hunter will volunteer to rescue me from whoever's tummy I get to sit in. Pity there's no hunter in this game.

Exactly that might be the one minor flaw in otherwise a pretty good plan!

Nogrod · 05-26-2012, 05:02 PM

Menel! Long time no see... Nice to see you again.

Okay. If this starts within a week I have no chance to take part as it is the last week at school and everything is just plain hectic. But if this starts on early June (one week + from now), then I'm gladly in for an old skool game.

Haha, an occupation just out of thin air with no requirements or specifications! (makes me feel nostalgic)

Nogrod · 05-27-2012, 11:45 AM

Lommy asked me to pass a similar kind of notice here I did.

So if this doesn't start within a week, she'll be in.

Kitanna · 05-27-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay. If this starts within a week I have no chance to take part as it is the last week at school and everything is just plain hectic. But if this starts on early June (one week + from now), then I'm gladly in for an old skool game.

I don't see this being a problem. It'll probably take that long to get a decent number of players.

Pomegranate · 05-28-2012, 08:14 PM

I should make it to this one, I'll have long work days but what's a better rewinding activity than playing some werewolf

And I'll run a cafe, the place where everything is discussed and the gossips spread.

Kitanna · 06-03-2012, 04:53 PM

I'm going to send out some PMs to see if anyone else might be interested in playing. With two or three more players we could be ready to start before too much longer.

Inziladun · 06-05-2012, 05:21 PM

Ok, count me in as the village barkeep.

Boromir88 · 06-06-2012, 03:19 AM

I believe I will have time to sneak 1 game in, so sign me up Kit. I'll be the village wild game wrangler.

I also like the idea for the cobbler. Will the cobbler (a/o village) know if the seer or ranger were prevented from their gift for one night?

Kitanna · 06-06-2012, 05:56 AM

Hooray, Boro and Inzil have joined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I also like the idea for the cobbler. Will the cobbler (a/o village) know if the seer or ranger were prevented from their gift for one night?

The cobbler will be told they've prevented a gifted, but not the gifted's role.

We have enough people to start, provided the three unsure people are still available to play.

When is everyone available to start playing? If we start the game before Saturday the DL with need to be 7am -6GMT, but if we start Sunday or later the DL can be 7 am -6GMT or 8pm -6GMT, which every is most convenient.

Pomegranate · 06-06-2012, 08:05 AM

i hate to do this now, but i think i might have to pull out now after all. I have a friend coming over next week and i won't be able to concentrate, and i'd be completely unavailable for the weekend, so since i don't have a tendency to die early in the game and don't want to try to deliberately do it either, i might have to leave you. I think i hoped we'd start earlier. Sorry!

Nogrod · 06-06-2012, 08:32 AM

Sad to hear that Pom, but if this isn't starting before the weekend, I might try to ask Greenie as she comes home from her camp on Sunday (and I think that being on the camp was her main reason for not joining in).

Legate of Amon Lanc · 06-06-2012, 10:55 AM

I think you can count me as playing, even though I might not be 100% as commited as I usually am because my exam term is going on at the same time. But if you are okay with slightly less commited and less posting Legate... this way at least I make sure my procrastination time is contained into some specific boundaries

EDIT: Oh, and occupation. Make me a local bard, for example.

Aganzir · 06-07-2012, 08:34 AM

Did somebody say werewolf?

I'll be the herbalist.

(I like the cobbler and prefer the 7 AM deadline.)

Glirdan · 06-07-2012, 10:22 AM

Alright, just letting you all know now that from this point on I do have a little more spare time as I'm on three week vacations. But don't be surprised if there is a lengthy time before you hear anything from me as my show that I have been rehearsing for for the past five months opens tonight!!!!

So, I will still play, just won't be around as often as I'd like.

Shastanis Althreduin · 06-07-2012, 02:28 PM

I suppose, for my role, I'll be the village chandler.

Kitanna · 06-07-2012, 06:10 PM

I'm sorry to see you go, Pom.

I'm willing to wait until Sunday to see if Greenie wants to play. Or if everyone is ready and anxious to go we can get started Saturday morning.

Nogrod · 06-07-2012, 06:52 PM

I'll be a retired barkeeper (hah Inzil, you got someone breathing over your shoulder telling you whether you do things right or wrong...

).

I'll try to find out with Greenie tomorrow to see if she wants to play.

satansaloser2005 · 06-07-2012, 07:12 PM

If we have the utmost understanding that I'm going to be horribly busy and will very rarely post (anything longer than a few sentences, anyway), I'm in.

I shall be the town bicycle. What? Why the faces? I'm a delivery girl!

satansaloser2005 · 06-07-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I suppose, for my role, I'll be the village chandler.

I absolutely read that as "village chandelier."

Inziladun · 06-07-2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'll be a retired barkeeper (hah Inzil, you got someone breathing over your shoulder telling you whether you do things right or wrong...

).

Perhaps I once worked for you, but you had to retire after an unfortunate accident in which you put our strongest stuff into the oil lamp by mistake, and lit it.

Meneltarmacil · 06-07-2012, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I believe I will have time to sneak 1 game in, so sign me up Kit. I'll be the village wild game wrangler.

I'll just get to writing my last will and testament then.

Boromir88 · 06-07-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I'll just get to writing my last will and testament then.

But you've only just returned! I will draw your attention to the Birthday thread, and a post from way back in 2009

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...postcount=1451

Legate of Amon Lanc · 06-08-2012, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I absolutely read that as "village chandelier."

That's because you are a bicycle.

Pitchwife · 06-08-2012, 11:28 AM

Oh yes, occupations. I'll be the village shopkeeper; "Some call it rubbish, to me it's treasure" - that kinda guy. And I'm OK with any DL that's later than 8pmGMT.

Nogrod · 06-08-2012, 12:57 PM

Greenie will not be playing. She has work every day next week and she'll be moving in the end of the week... So understandably too busy to play.

05-23-2012, 06:47 PM	#1
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	WW XCVI - Admin thread White wolves invade Eriador from the North. One village stands against the invaders. ~~~ Three wolves: Conspire and harass and kill every night. One seer: Dreams of a fellow player every night. One ranger: Protects a fellow player every night. They may self-protect, but cannot protect the same person two nights in a row. One cobbler: Now I'd like to try something different ('cause I like to do that with the cobbler) and that is the cobbler has the chance to blind the seer or incapacitate the ranger. Each night the cobbler picks another player. If it's an ordo or a wolf, nothing happens. If the cobbler hits the seer or ranger they are useless for the night. However, the cobbler cannot pick the same person twice. I.E. if the cobbler blinds the seer he/she can't target the seer again the rest of the game. When dreamt of the cobbler is revealed as an ordo. I'd like to give this a whirl, but if no one is interested I'm happy to keep the traditional cobbler role. Otherwise this'll be a standard game. No retractable votes. Votes will only be counted in the following format ++Kitanna I'll leave it up to you guys if anyone wants to have double lynchings for tied votes. Deadline will either be at 7 am -6GMT or 8pm -6GMT. Whatever works best for everyone. Players Shasta - Village chandler Menel - Traveling salesman Glirdan - Traveling thespian G55 - Little Red Riding Hood Nerwen - Maid at Inzil's Legate - Local Bard Pitchwife - Village Shopkeep Nogrod - Retired Barkeep Lommy - Inzil - Village barkeep Aganzir - Herbalist Sally - Town Bicycle Kath - Woodsmith with the gammy leg __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain Last edited by Kitanna; 06-11-2012 at 05:45 PM.

05-23-2012, 06:55 PM	#2
Shastanis Althreduin Werewolf Psychic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In fire, water, earth, and air. But mostly water. Posts: 2,832	I'm in! __________________ Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV

05-23-2012, 07:27 PM	#3
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	I like your idea for the cobbler. And I'll join as a traveling salesman of various things. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

05-23-2012, 08:29 PM	#4
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,493	Hmm... does the cobbler get this in addition to the usual "distraction" role? (as in, does the cobbler still try to help the wolves even by sacrificing himself, if worst comes to worst, or is his priority his own survival?) I think the modified role is an interesting idea, whichever way it works. We likes it very much. And I'm likely to be in... no, scratch that. I'm in whatever. I just hope you don't start until at least next week. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

05-23-2012, 08:57 PM	#5
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	I'm in, of course. As if I'd miss two games in a row. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

05-23-2012, 09:27 PM	#6
Glirdan Energetic Essence Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew Posts: 3,285	ARE WE DOING A BACK TO THE BASICS GAME WITH ROLES!?!? Either way, I'm in (and if we are doing roles, I shall be a traveling thespian who can't remember his lines) __________________ *I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face!* Fenris Wolf

05-25-2012, 05:25 AM	#10
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,493	I'll be the Little Red Riding Hood, coming to the village to see my grandmother. How appropriate that there's a wolf in that story too! Hey, she can be the first victim! __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

05-25-2012, 11:01 AM	#12
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	When the Cobbler blinds the Seer or stops the Ranger, does he/she get to know that person's role? __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

05-25-2012, 02:51 PM	#14
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	I'm in. It feels like ages since the last game. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

05-26-2012, 05:02 PM	#17
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Menel! Long time no see... Nice to see you again. Okay. If this starts within a week I have no chance to take part as it is the last week at school and everything is just plain hectic. But if this starts on early June (one week + from now), then I'm gladly in for an old skool game. Haha, an occupation just out of thin air with no requirements or specifications! (makes me feel nostalgic) __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

05-27-2012, 11:45 AM	#18
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Lommy asked me to pass a similar kind of notice here I did. So if this doesn't start within a week, she'll be in. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

05-28-2012, 08:14 PM	#20
Pomegranate Wight Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Home (either of them) Posts: 151	I should make it to this one, I'll have long work days but what's a better rewinding activity than playing some werewolf And I'll run a cafe, the place where everything is discussed and the gossips spread. __________________ But I will run until my feet no longer run no more

06-03-2012, 04:53 PM	#21
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	I'm going to send out some PMs to see if anyone else might be interested in playing. With two or three more players we could be ready to start before too much longer. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

06-05-2012, 05:21 PM	#22
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	Ok, count me in as the village barkeep. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

06-06-2012, 03:19 AM	#23
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I believe I will have time to sneak 1 game in, so sign me up Kit. I'll be the village wild game wrangler. I also like the idea for the cobbler. Will the cobbler (a/o village) know if the seer or ranger were prevented from their gift for one night? __________________ Fenris Penguin

06-06-2012, 08:05 AM	#25
Pomegranate Wight Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Home (either of them) Posts: 151	i hate to do this now, but i think i might have to pull out now after all. I have a friend coming over next week and i won't be able to concentrate, and i'd be completely unavailable for the weekend, so since i don't have a tendency to die early in the game and don't want to try to deliberately do it either, i might have to leave you. I think i hoped we'd start earlier. Sorry! __________________ But I will run until my feet no longer run no more

06-06-2012, 08:32 AM	#26
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Sad to hear that Pom, but if this isn't starting before the weekend, I might try to ask Greenie as she comes home from her camp on Sunday (and I think that being on the camp was her main reason for not joining in). __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

06-06-2012, 10:55 AM	#27
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	I think you can count me as playing, even though I might not be 100% as commited as I usually am because my exam term is going on at the same time. But if you are okay with slightly less commited and less posting Legate... this way at least I make sure my procrastination time is contained into some specific boundaries EDIT: Oh, and occupation. Make me a local bard, for example. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories Last edited by Legate of Amon Lanc; 06-06-2012 at 11:06 AM.

06-07-2012, 08:34 AM	#28
Aganzir Woman of Secret Shadow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells Posts: 4,511	Did somebody say werewolf? I'll be the herbalist. (I like the cobbler and prefer the 7 AM deadline.) __________________ He bit me, and I was not gentle.

06-07-2012, 10:22 AM	#29
Glirdan Energetic Essence Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew Posts: 3,285	Alright, just letting you all know now that from this point on I do have a little more spare time as I'm on three week vacations. But don't be surprised if there is a lengthy time before you hear anything from me as my show that I have been rehearsing for for the past five months opens tonight!!!! So, I will still play, just won't be around as often as I'd like. __________________ *I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face!* Fenris Wolf

06-07-2012, 02:28 PM	#30
Shastanis Althreduin Werewolf Psychic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In fire, water, earth, and air. But mostly water. Posts: 2,832	I suppose, for my role, I'll be the village chandler. __________________ Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV

06-07-2012, 06:10 PM	#31
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	I'm sorry to see you go, Pom. I'm willing to wait until Sunday to see if Greenie wants to play. Or if everyone is ready and anxious to go we can get started Saturday morning. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

06-07-2012, 06:52 PM	#32
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	I'll be a retired barkeeper (hah Inzil, you got someone breathing over your shoulder telling you whether you do things right or wrong... ). I'll try to find out with Greenie tomorrow to see if she wants to play. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

06-07-2012, 07:12 PM	#33
satansaloser2005 The Sweetest Spoiler Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly Posts: 5,789	If we have the utmost understanding that I'm going to be horribly busy and will very rarely post (anything longer than a few sentences, anyway), I'm in. I shall be the town bicycle. What? Why the faces? I'm a delivery girl! __________________ "My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.

06-08-2012, 11:28 AM	#39
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Oh yes, occupations. I'll be the village shopkeeper; "Some call it rubbish, to me it's treasure" - that kinda guy. And I'm OK with any DL that's later than 8pmGMT. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

06-08-2012, 12:57 PM	#40
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Greenie will not be playing. She has work every day next week and she'll be moving in the end of the week... So understandably too busy to play. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...