A family murder in Great Smials?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

At any rate, there's no mention in the Prologue of the Thain having anything to do with law or criminal matters.

There's also no mention of the Mayor having much to do with a bureaucracy, though I put his duties in those terms. In fact, it's spoken of in much the same terms as the Thain: "a nominal dignity." I certainly don't dispute that the Thain would be unlikely to exercise any regal prerogatives; my point is more that, in Hobbit law, he'd still have them. After all, I agree that there wouldn't be a murder trial anything like what we would recognize as one--let alone an investigation we'd recognize. The Thain might never have to exercise his authority beyond the nominal military musters, but he'd still have that authority if it was ever required.

[Galadriel55]

When it really comes down to an emergency hobbits would give the authority to whoever is most capable to deal with it. Merry and Pippin were no Thains or Mayors or even heads of families, but they had the right abilities for hobbits to obey them. Not forever, although they were forever held in high respect, but for the time of the emergency they had all the power that was needed to deal with it.

[Faramir Jones]

I'm very interested in the comments about what could have happened if Lalia's death was a murder, and if so, what steps could have been taken to deal with it, given her prominence, and the fact that the Shire had little government.

This is my (very speculative) opinion on what could have been done, based on the information given. Tolkien said in 'Concerning Hobbits' in LotR, that the Mayor was 'elected every seven years at the Free Fair on the White Downs at the Lithe, that is at Midsummer'. (The Lord of the Rings, (London: HarperCollins Publishers, 1995), p. 10)

It appears that what was originally a fair then took on a political function: the election of a mayor. The question then arises about whether that Fair also has other political functions. Does it, for example, make laws (legislative acts) and deal with important legal cases (judicial decisions)? Early parliamentary bodies not only had legislative functions; they also functioned as courts of law. The UK Parliament, for example, also operated as a court of law until 1st October 2009; because a committee of its upper house, the House of Lords, composed of peers appointed to carry out its judicial responsibilities, was the UK's highest court of appeal.

In dealing with such a murder, it is possible that the Free Fair, either itself, or at the instigation of the Mayor, could appoint one or more temporary judges to deal with the specific case. Perhaps they could be drawn from the lawyers that exist in the Shire. (Bilbo's posessions were being sold at the end of The Hobbit by either an auctioneering firm, or a law and auctioneering firm; and there are references to lawyers in drafts of the first chapter of LotR.) A public prosecutor could also be selected, perhaps from among the lawyers, again to deal with that specific case.

There is then the question of whether a jury would be involved. Considering Tolkien's emphatic statement that the Shire was based on an English Midlands village c.1897, it would be reasonable for juries to be appointed in such a case. Perhaps they are selected by some kind of lottery system.

What do people think?

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Merry and Pippin were no Thains or Mayors or even heads of families

True, to a point. However both were the actual heir-apparents (not that that term would be used) of their respective families.
Pippin was the eldest son and heir of the current Thain (Paladin) and Merry was the eldest son and heir of the current Master (of Buckland), Sarradoc.

So, while they WERE the best equipped by training (from their quest experiences) to lead the fight - they were *ALSO* (serendipitally) two with some of the strongest positions within the Shire hierarchy to lead the fight (esp given that the Thain was already engaged in a guerrilla war in Tookland; the Master was a good 40 miles away and bottled up in Buckland; and the Mayor was in prison in Michel Delving.

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As far as Laila is concerned, it sure seems to me that Hobbits operated mostly within a "family" or "clan" structure where matters of justice would be handled within the clan/family structure - thus, mostly, obviating the need or drive toward a formalized, shire-wide judicial structure.

Obviously this is just personal opinion - but in this regards the judicial structure may be more modeled after the highland clans of Scotland, than over the "Kings Court" structure of medieval England.

• Partly because of the emphasis placed in several places on Family Headship:
  • Otho heading the Sackvilles and desireing to also inherit the Baggins headship from Bilbo (Tolkien wrote somewhere of Otho's desire be rise to the rare position of heading TWO families at the same time)
  • Merry's comment to Frodo about how the gate guards would probably try to deny entrance to the Nazgul "until they could get a message to the Master (the head of family) at Brandy Hall" (not that they could hold them off for long, even if they tried).
  • The significance of Bilbo making Frodo his "Heir" (the new Baggins head of family - "THE Mr. Baggins").
  • The Thain's (head of Took family) ability and authority to "Raise the Tooks" and lead them against the Ruffians in and south of Tookland.
• Partly from the absence of any indication that there was any Shire-wide mechanism for resolving legal (much less criminal) disputes.
• And partly from the apparent lack of any "occupation" or "job" held by the family heads - which would be consistent with a "clan leader" whose "job" includes leading the family and resolving any disputes (quietly and "within the family")

Anyway, my two cents worth.