Rohan - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morthoron · 07-24-2012, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysteryman3

I never said that my story wasn't original, and I highly doubt that even one other fan-fiction writer came up with the same ideas as myself. Despite what you and many other people may think of me, I can assure you that I am not a simple fan-fiction writer, and I do have considerable skill as a writer. I am wincing at the fact that I sound boastful, but I do feel that I need to convince you that I am not simply another Tolkien wannabe.

There are several fine writers of Tolkien fan-fiction on this very site. That they write fan-fiction does not detract from their writing skills; however, they are at least aware they are writing fan-fiction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mysteryman3

My story is entirely original, using only the verified facts of Tolkien's universe and my own original ideas. The story both develops and expands upon unfinished concepts which Tolkien includes in his own published works, not least among them being vampires and werewolves. The Necromancer, for example, becomes a vampire or a similar creature according to the Silmarilion (I do apologise if that is incorrect as I have personally never read the Silmarilion). In addition, much of the story takes place in the far far east, which has so far been overlooked in the way of physical details.

As a newly-minted writer of fan-fiction, you do yourself a disservice having not read The Silmarillion, or the 12 volume History of Middle-earth, for that matter. You may well find the "unfinished concepts" you are grappling with are dealt with in more detail than you are aware of, including a more complete picture of Sauron the Maia, lieutenant of Morgoth Bauglir, who in his long history was known as Mairon, Gorthaur the Cruel, Thu the Hunter, Annatar and the Necromancer. And the history of Far Eastern Middle-earth has been dealt with in great detail by other fan-fiction writers.

mysteryman3 · 07-28-2012, 06:57 PM

Thanks for the help guys. Your help is greatly appreciated. I knew it was a good idea to ask for help on the web. I think I'll do some more research (like reading the Silmarillion) before I continue writing.

Mithalwen · 07-29-2012, 03:44 AM

"Can I / someone else write / complete / develop my / their own version of one of these unfinished tales ? (or any others)
The simple answer is NO.
You are of course free to do whatever you like for your own private enjoyment, but there is no question of any commercial exploitation of this form of "fan-fiction".
Also, in these days of the Internet, and privately produced collectors’ items for sale on eBay, we must make it as clear as possible that the Tolkien Estate never has, and never will authorize the commercialisation or distribution of any works of this type.
The Estate exists to defend the integrity of J.R.R. Tolkien’s writings. Christopher Tolkien's work as his father’s literary executor has always been to publish as faithfully and honestly as possible his father's completed and uncompleted works, without adaptation or embellishment"

Lalwendë · 07-29-2012, 05:01 PM

It's not entirely true that no other writer has been allowed to publish material based on Tolkien's work. There was The Fall of Gondolin by Alex Lewis. However, and it's a fairly big caveat, he directly asked for the approval of Priscilla Tolkien (some say, it was perhaps a fait accompli that she was presented with - the Tolkien Society is rife with gossips so who knows...) and it was limited to a strictly private publication of fifty copies only!

Don't be put off though, fan fiction is worth doing. I've had fun myself on this site, taking part in our RPGs, which are often based on developing unfinished ideas/tales (take a look, they're great). And if you want more recognition then use it as a basis for your own creation. If it's an original idea then it may well stand a move out of Middle-earth and into your own created world.

There is one Englishwoman currently making a mint out of her altered fan fic of Twilight. What she wrote in my opinion deserves nothing more than hearty belly laughs, what you propose sounds much more interesting and if you can turn it round and make it your own I'm sure it should be good.

William Cloud Hicklin · 09-09-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

It's not entirely true that no other writer has been allowed to publish material based on Tolkien's work. There was The Fall of Gondolin by Alex Lewis. However, and it's a fairly big caveat, he directly asked for the approval of Priscilla Tolkien (some say, it was perhaps a fait accompli that she was presented with - the Tolkien Society is rife with gossips so who knows...) and it was limited to a strictly private publication of fifty copies only!

However, Lewis' Fall of Gondolin wasn't really fan-fic, but rather Tolkien's own Gondolin texts sutured together.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 09-10-2012, 01:24 PM

Returning to the question of the Rohirrim and their associations with Anglo-Saxon England, it's significant that Tolkien's professional interest was not in a specific period but a particular place. The texts on which he published his most influential academic work were largely products of the West Midlands (with the exception of Beowulf, the production of which has been located to every part of England at some time or another). The part of the Midlands from which Tolkien's Suffield relatives hailed was well within the borders of the old kingdom of Mercia, as is Oxford, and when Tolkien threatened to start speaking only Old English, it was the Mercian dialect that he said he would adopt.

What has this to do with Rohirrim? Well, you only have to look at Mercia to realise that it can't be an English word. It's obviously the Latin version of the English place-name, which would be something like mærc. If this were to take the hard Scandinavian ending that would have been present in the north Midlands under the Danelaw it would be mark - the borderland. Riddermark is simply 'borderland of the horsemen'. Interestingly, Farmer Giles' Middle Kingdom can be plausibly identified with Mercia too, even down to the place-names. Obviously this is an argument that Tom Shippey has used in the past, along with his point for point comparison of the arrival of Aragorn's company in Edoras with Beowulf's arrival at Heorot. Perhaps it's fairer to say, though, that the Rohirrim are heavily influenced by Anglo-Saxon culture and language, perhaps an image of how the Mercians could have been, than to say that they are identical to them.

07-29-2012, 03:44 AM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	From the Estate website. "Can I / someone else write / complete / develop my / their own version of one of these unfinished tales ? (or any others) The simple answer is NO. You are of course free to do whatever you like for your own private enjoyment, but there is no question of any commercial exploitation of this form of "fan-fiction". Also, in these days of the Internet, and privately produced collectors’ items for sale on eBay, we must make it as clear as possible that the Tolkien Estate never has, and never will authorize the commercialisation or distribution of any works of this type. The Estate exists to defend the integrity of J.R.R. Tolkien’s writings. Christopher Tolkien's work as his father’s literary executor has always been to publish as faithfully and honestly as possible his father's completed and uncompleted works, without adaptation or embellishment" __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-29-2012, 05:01 PM	#4
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	It's not entirely true that no other writer has been allowed to publish material based on Tolkien's work. There was The Fall of Gondolin by Alex Lewis. However, and it's a fairly big caveat, he directly asked for the approval of Priscilla Tolkien (some say, it was perhaps a fait accompli that she was presented with - the Tolkien Society is rife with gossips so who knows...) and it was limited to a strictly private publication of fifty copies only! Don't be put off though, fan fiction is worth doing. I've had fun myself on this site, taking part in our RPGs, which are often based on developing unfinished ideas/tales (take a look, they're great). And if you want more recognition then use it as a basis for your own creation. If it's an original idea then it may well stand a move out of Middle-earth and into your own created world. There is one Englishwoman currently making a mint out of her altered fan fic of Twilight. What she wrote in my opinion deserves nothing more than hearty belly laughs, what you propose sounds much more interesting and if you can turn it round and make it your own I'm sure it should be good. __________________ Gordon's alive!

09-10-2012, 01:24 PM	#6
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	Midland connections Returning to the question of the Rohirrim and their associations with Anglo-Saxon England, it's significant that Tolkien's professional interest was not in a specific period but a particular place. The texts on which he published his most influential academic work were largely products of the West Midlands (with the exception of Beowulf, the production of which has been located to every part of England at some time or another). The part of the Midlands from which Tolkien's Suffield relatives hailed was well within the borders of the old kingdom of Mercia, as is Oxford, and when Tolkien threatened to start speaking only Old English, it was the Mercian dialect that he said he would adopt. What has this to do with Rohirrim? Well, you only have to look at Mercia to realise that it can't be an English word. It's obviously the Latin version of the English place-name, which would be something like mærc. If this were to take the hard Scandinavian ending that would have been present in the north Midlands under the Danelaw it would be mark - the borderland. Riddermark is simply 'borderland of the horsemen'. Interestingly, Farmer Giles' Middle Kingdom can be plausibly identified with Mercia too, even down to the place-names. Obviously this is an argument that Tom Shippey has used in the past, along with his point for point comparison of the arrival of Aragorn's company in Edoras with Beowulf's arrival at Heorot. Perhaps it's fairer to say, though, that the Rohirrim are heavily influenced by Anglo-Saxon culture and language, perhaps an image of how the Mercians could have been, than to say that they are identical to them. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

07-28-2012, 06:57 PM	#2
mysteryman3 Newly Deceased Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 5	Thanks for the help guys. Your help is greatly appreciated. I knew it was a good idea to ask for help on the web. I think I'll do some more research (like reading the Silmarillion) before I continue writing.