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Old 07-29-2012, 08:37 PM   #1
Puddleglum
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 145
Puddleglum has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idril View Post
would the Valar cease to exist in the Second Music after Dagor Dagorath?
Short answer, I would say, is No. The Valar "are 'divine', that is, were originally 'outside' and existed 'before' the making of the world." (LoT #133) and "this condition Illuvatar made" (referring to the Valar coming in) "or it is the necessity of their love, that their power should thenceforward be bounded in the World, to be within it forever, until it is complete." (Music of the Ainur). More is said that could be taken ambiguously, but I think this is the essence that Eru won't allow them to bow out of their task - no matter how long it is. THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF LOVE. But, having being before and distinct from Ea, when it's story is over they would (I believe) still "be".

Elves are a bit different in that they have their being in and from Arda (being both Fea, spirit, AND Hroa, physical body). Estel would say that Eru must have a plan and purpose for all his children beyond the "full making" - but Estel (hope) is all they have in that regards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idril View Post
it seems to me that the Void is an allusion to Purgatory, a sort of in between worlds.
The Ainulindale says that "Melkor ... had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame ... and he was impatient of the emptiness of {the Void}" and also "Illuvatar went forth from the fair regions that he had made for the Ainur ... But when they were come into the Void..."

From these, and other, statements it seems that the Void is less a Purgatory (a place for the dead to go and await judgement) than simply the places OTHER THAN the places where the Ainur were to dwell. Also, that it existed (if that is even the right term) before Ea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idril View Post
Is the love between female Eldar and male Edain an example of courtly love?
It could be. I think it's a great observation and question, but I fear I'm not up enough on the Medieval concept (as far as details) to contribute much. Hopefully others can chime in.
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