Taters to Taters - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lhunardawen · 08-22-2012, 11:22 AM

Merry, at the Pelennor Fields. Brilliant choice. The Lonely Mountain gave me a chuckle.

the phantom · 08-22-2012, 12:24 PM

Don't strike me as neglected-

"The Bath Song"- Not sung enough these days?
Merry Brandybuck- One instance isn't enough for me.
Halls of Mandos- Plenty of visitors.
The Party Tree- Umm, it was totally invited to parties.
Celebrimbor- Had a following and was buds with Dwarves and Elves.
Cats of Beruthiel- Beruthiel saw to them.

THE CONTENDERS-

Radagast- I can see this one being argued but I think his isolation was self-imposed.

Weathertop- Once a great watch-tower, but then fell into ruin and only the occasional Ranger drops by. I'd say it qualifies.

Entwives- Their hubbies didn't care about their hobbies and didn't visit often enough, and eventually got "lost". Yep, that qualifies.

King of the Dead- Cursed by Isildur and then soundly ignored for about 3,000 years until Aragorn. Certainly qualifies.

The Lonely Mountain- Ha ha! Actually had indwellers and such so not legitimately neglected, but the name carries it in my book. If we were playing in RL I'd probably pick it in the midst of my giggles.

Galadriel55 · 08-22-2012, 12:26 PM

If I would have been the judge I would have so picked Entwives, cause it just cracks me up. The Lonely Mountain is quite brilliant too, and quite funny. And I can picture the neglected Halls of Mandos looking quite awful, which is pretty funny. After all, those Halls have ages and ages of use on them...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tp

Who played Gaffer? I would've picked it.

I did, hehe.

Edit: xed with tp

Gwathagor · 08-22-2012, 12:40 PM

Lonely Mountain. Nice.

Nogrod · 08-22-2012, 02:52 PM

Neglected (ignored, disregarded, rejected)

"The Bath Song" - Actually one of my favourites. The "absurdo-meter" rings loud and clear! And you could come up with reasons as well: just think of the songs Tolkien wrote and which of them are celebrated, composed to music, heralded as great English literature masterpieces... you don't find the Bath Song from the list of top-recorded Tolkien songs or from the academic papers analysing Tolkien's poetry. Ignored, disregarded, rejected... yes.

Merry Brandybuck - Another one I like: I would say he's the most neglected major character by the prof in the whole LotR, and compared to the closest meaningful parallel aka. Pippin it's clear Pip gets time and attention whereas Merry is mostly just tossed around ignored and disregarded - even rejected by Theoden. The Pelennor fields just seems to top his fate as the ignored character.

King of the Dead - Like someone said already, being forgotten and neglected inside their mountainy-tomb for millenia. The fact there wasn't a true heir to Isildur around to fulfill the prophecy might be played as cause for the neglect (so it is not negligence as such but just that the conditions for invoking them were not ripe until Aragorn turned in) but they were surely disregarded, nevertheless.

Halls of Mandos - Maybe I should like this one because it doesn't seem to make any sense to me. But it doesn't make a funny or absurd sense either. It's an ever enlargening and ever crowding place and one of the most important places in Valinor every elf would have to consider. An elf really couldn't ignore - not to talk of disregarding or rejecting - the Halls of Mandos! Well, maybe as the actual "contradiction" card taking the satirical meaning: the most important place = the most ignored place...

Weathertop - Weathertop had been in a sense neglected for a long time by most of the folks - but then again no one kind of lived near enough (which could be used as argument for them being neglected as well). But if we look just at the LotR, no one can say Weathertop is neglected or ignored! Gandalf and Aragorn saw it important enough a place to pay a visit there even if was side from the main routes - and the Nazgûl thought it important enough to keep constant watch on it.

Celebrimbor - Hmm. There is some considerable lack of data concerning Celebrimbor and it could be actually argued he is - as a character - neglected by Mr. Tolkien. Or to be more precise: he was added into the legendarium to fill a place but Tolkien never quite got into writing about him and to make him a real character of "flesh and blood" but left him as just a name and a place-filler. Actually a pretty decent choice.

Cats of Beruthiel - Well, on top of what tp said that they had the love and company of Beruthiel herself - and were very important to her - one could add that they became legendary creatures tales were told generation after generation. Yes, Tolkien gave us very little of them and could be said to have ignored them somewhat, but that notwithstanding, they were highly considered and known all over, even in common sayings of the third age...

Entwives - It's hard to see any argument seriously stating Entwives to be neglected. Disappeared: yes. Neglected, disregarded, ignored - or rejected(!), no way! They were on the ents' minds constantly and they thought of them all the time asking anyone they met if they had seen the Entwives - and they sang about them, reminisced them, thought of them all the time - and longed for them deeply. That's hardly what you'd call negligence.

The Party Tree - Like somene said: it's the centerpiece of a festival. You could also point out that it takes a lot of work to pick, fall and erect it - not to talk of decorating it. Yes, one could argue that after the festival is over the Party tree could be neglected or disregarded - but I doubt the Hobbits did that. And anyway, it should be some random "ex-party tree" then, not "The Party tree" - which clearly points at the one on Bilbo's jubilee.

Radagast - echoing tp here: "the isolation was self-imposed". And adding this: if we wish to talk of neglected or ignored wizards, then how about talking of the so called Blue Wizards first? You may say Saruman disregarded his importance and ignored his particular role - but even with his erring conception of Radagast he didn't neglect him but tried to use him to his own ends.

The Lonely Mountain - Haha! I think this has winner-qualities. I mean whatever the actual negligence (which probably isn't that true) the name kind of does it. If something is named the Lonely Mountain then how do you argue against it? Okay, one could try saying that if it had been truly neglected or ignored no one would have bothered to name it in the first place... but well, I just like this pick.

wilwarin538 · 08-22-2012, 04:24 PM

FYI, I'm going to be making my decision pretty early because I'm going out of town tonight (so basically within the next 4 hours).

So I kinda want to just pick Lonely Mountain because it made me laugh so hard, but I suppose I should consider some other options.

The other ones that struck me as possibly fitting the bill were Entwives, Weathertop, King of the Dead and Radagast.

I think Phantom and Nog are right in saying that Radagast really didn't want very much attention to begin with, so you can't really neglect something that wants to be alone.

The Entwives are a bit tough, cause when we hear about them it's more about the fact that they are lost and the Ents are trying to find them, but the reason they are gone could very well be because the Ents neglected them. But I think in the end the fact that the Ents seem to miss them so much means they are no longer neglected, so I guess they don't completely qualify.

Weathertop is a pretty good contender because of the state it was in. A truly valued watchtower would not be left to fall into ruin, so it was definitely neglected for a long time.

Then the King of the Dead (and all his men) were neglected for thousands of years, left in that weird restless state until Aragorn showed up and allowed them to be useful.

Soooo....I want to pick the Lonely Mountain for the humour factor (in the real life game humour is usually what I go with), but Weathortop and King of the Dead do have legitimate reasons to be chosen. I'll think about it for a bit.

wilwarin538 · 08-22-2012, 08:42 PM

I has to make a decision now because I'm about to leave for a very long bus ride.

So I'm going to go with the humorous choice, because it was my initial reaction and what I would do in the RL game.

++Lonely Mountain

Congrats to who ever made that choice, very clever.

For the next few days of the game I won't be posting at all but will be participating still by texting my choices to Boro, I'm sure I will have a lot of interesting things to read when I get home ^_^

Boromir88 · 08-22-2012, 08:52 PM

Congratulations Master Gwath on the very humorous selection. I think everyone got a good laugh at that one.

(And yet again, I was tempted to post things such as..."Sure The Lonely Mountain was inhabitted, but it's not just humorous in the name. It's neglected by its own kind...all other Mountains!"

)

Well. A bit of a long wait. Safe travels wilwa.

Open discussion now, until tomorrow. (Hopefully I will not forget time again tomorrow

)

Galadriel55 · 08-23-2012, 07:58 AM

Who picked "The Bath Song" (if you don't mind telling)?

Nogrod · 08-23-2012, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Who picked "The Bath Song" (if you don't mind telling)?

Haha, seconded!

I mean had I been the judge on this round I would have seriously considered picking "The Bath Song"... You can find academic studies of the philosophical underpinnings of the Walking Song or the interaction of mediaval and romantic imagery and verse on the Song of Boromir - or you can hear composers making their versions of the Lament of Gandalf or the song of the ents and entwives... but where is all the fuzz about the Bath Song?

Galadriel55 · 08-23-2012, 08:31 AM

Well, the Tolkien Ensemble has a nice version of the Bath Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVf_Vgr7kVk

But that's just one interpretation and beside the point anyways. I'm curious about the reasons for choosing it and just who picked it.

Boromir88 · 08-23-2012, 09:54 AM

Tally

the phantom - 1 (Honest)
Kitanna - 1 (Deadly)
Gwath - 1 (Neglected)

----

ROUND 4

Galadriel55 your options for "Insane" are...

Tar-Atanamir
Gollum/Smeagol
Denethor
Angband
Mouth of Sauron
Ted Sandyman
Tom Bombadil
Fatty Bolger
Lobelia
Numenor
Thorin Oakenshield

---

ROUND 5

Green tater: Cuddly (loving, tender, huggable, soft)
Judge: MCRmygirl4eva

Nogrod · 08-23-2012, 10:12 AM

Insane (psychotic, deranged, mad)

Haha! Denethor and Tom Bombadill surely qualify!

And why not Gollum & Thorin...

Gwathagor · 08-23-2012, 10:48 AM

Denethor and Gollum would be the obvious choices. Fatty Bolger is probably the least insane character in the entire mythos...but maybe only a true psychopath could manage to appear so perfectly innocuous.

the phantom · 08-23-2012, 11:48 AM

I think Nog has the idea- Gollum, Denethor, Bombadil, and Thorin all showed some signs of nuttiness.

08-22-2012, 12:24 PM	#2
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Don't strike me as neglected- "The Bath Song"- Not sung enough these days? Merry Brandybuck- One instance isn't enough for me. Halls of Mandos- Plenty of visitors. The Party Tree- Umm, it was totally invited to parties. Celebrimbor- Had a following and was buds with Dwarves and Elves. Cats of Beruthiel- Beruthiel saw to them. THE CONTENDERS- Radagast- I can see this one being argued but I think his isolation was self-imposed. Weathertop- Once a great watch-tower, but then fell into ruin and only the occasional Ranger drops by. I'd say it qualifies. Entwives- Their hubbies didn't care about their hobbies and didn't visit often enough, and eventually got "lost". Yep, that qualifies. King of the Dead- Cursed by Isildur and then soundly ignored for about 3,000 years until Aragorn. Certainly qualifies. The Lonely Mountain- Ha ha! Actually had indwellers and such so not legitimately neglected, but the name carries it in my book. If we were playing in RL I'd probably pick it in the midst of my giggles. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

08-22-2012, 12:40 PM	#4
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Lonely Mountain. Nice. __________________ Stories and songs.

08-22-2012, 02:52 PM	#5
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Neglected (ignored, disregarded, rejected) "The Bath Song" - Actually one of my favourites. The "absurdo-meter" rings loud and clear! And you could come up with reasons as well: just think of the songs Tolkien wrote and which of them are celebrated, composed to music, heralded as great English literature masterpieces... you don't find the Bath Song from the list of top-recorded Tolkien songs or from the academic papers analysing Tolkien's poetry. Ignored, disregarded, rejected... yes. Merry Brandybuck - Another one I like: I would say he's the most neglected major character by the prof in the whole LotR, and compared to the closest meaningful parallel aka. Pippin it's clear Pip gets time and attention whereas Merry is mostly just tossed around ignored and disregarded - even rejected by Theoden. The Pelennor fields just seems to top his fate as the ignored character. King of the Dead - Like someone said already, being forgotten and neglected inside their mountainy-tomb for millenia. The fact there wasn't a true heir to Isildur around to fulfill the prophecy might be played as cause for the neglect (so it is not negligence as such but just that the conditions for invoking them were not ripe until Aragorn turned in) but they were surely disregarded, nevertheless. Halls of Mandos - Maybe I should like this one because it doesn't seem to make any sense to me. But it doesn't make a funny or absurd sense either. It's an ever enlargening and ever crowding place and one of the most important places in Valinor every elf would have to consider. An elf really couldn't ignore - not to talk of disregarding or rejecting - the Halls of Mandos! Well, maybe as the actual "contradiction" card taking the satirical meaning: the most important place = the most ignored place... Weathertop - Weathertop had been in a sense neglected for a long time by most of the folks - but then again no one kind of lived near enough (which could be used as argument for them being neglected as well). But if we look just at the LotR, no one can say Weathertop is neglected or ignored! Gandalf and Aragorn saw it important enough a place to pay a visit there even if was side from the main routes - and the Nazgûl thought it important enough to keep constant watch on it. Celebrimbor - Hmm. There is some considerable lack of data concerning Celebrimbor and it could be actually argued he is - as a character - neglected by Mr. Tolkien. Or to be more precise: he was added into the legendarium to fill a place but Tolkien never quite got into writing about him and to make him a real character of "flesh and blood" but left him as just a name and a place-filler. Actually a pretty decent choice. Cats of Beruthiel - Well, on top of what tp said that they had the love and company of Beruthiel herself - and were very important to her - one could add that they became legendary creatures tales were told generation after generation. Yes, Tolkien gave us very little of them and could be said to have ignored them somewhat, but that notwithstanding, they were highly considered and known all over, even in common sayings of the third age... Entwives - It's hard to see any argument seriously stating Entwives to be neglected. Disappeared: yes. Neglected, disregarded, ignored - or rejected(!), no way! They were on the ents' minds constantly and they thought of them all the time asking anyone they met if they had seen the Entwives - and they sang about them, reminisced them, thought of them all the time - and longed for them deeply. That's hardly what you'd call negligence. The Party Tree - Like somene said: it's the centerpiece of a festival. You could also point out that it takes a lot of work to pick, fall and erect it - not to talk of decorating it. Yes, one could argue that after the festival is over the Party tree could be neglected or disregarded - but I doubt the Hobbits did that. And anyway, it should be some random "ex-party tree" then, not "The Party tree" - which clearly points at the one on Bilbo's jubilee. Radagast - echoing tp here: "the isolation was self-imposed". And adding this: if we wish to talk of neglected or ignored wizards, then how about talking of the so called Blue Wizards first? You may say Saruman disregarded his importance and ignored his particular role - but even with his erring conception of Radagast he didn't neglect him but tried to use him to his own ends. The Lonely Mountain - Haha! I think this has winner-qualities. I mean whatever the actual negligence (which probably isn't that true) the name kind of does it. If something is named the Lonely Mountain then how do you argue against it? Okay, one could try saying that if it had been truly neglected or ignored no one would have bothered to name it in the first place... but well, I just like this pick. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

08-22-2012, 04:24 PM	#6
wilwarin538 Fluttering Enchantment Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,508	FYI, I'm going to be making my decision pretty early because I'm going out of town tonight (so basically within the next 4 hours). So I kinda want to just pick Lonely Mountain because it made me laugh so hard, but I suppose I should consider some other options. The other ones that struck me as possibly fitting the bill were Entwives, Weathertop, King of the Dead and Radagast. I think Phantom and Nog are right in saying that Radagast really didn't want very much attention to begin with, so you can't really neglect something that wants to be alone. The Entwives are a bit tough, cause when we hear about them it's more about the fact that they are lost and the Ents are trying to find them, but the reason they are gone could very well be because the Ents neglected them. But I think in the end the fact that the Ents seem to miss them so much means they are no longer neglected, so I guess they don't completely qualify. Weathertop is a pretty good contender because of the state it was in. A truly valued watchtower would not be left to fall into ruin, so it was definitely neglected for a long time. Then the King of the Dead (and all his men) were neglected for thousands of years, left in that weird restless state until Aragorn showed up and allowed them to be useful. Soooo....I want to pick the Lonely Mountain for the humour factor (in the real life game humour is usually what I go with), but Weathortop and King of the Dead do have legitimate reasons to be chosen. I'll think about it for a bit. __________________ Comme une étoile amarante Comme un papillon de nuit C'est la lumière qui m'attire La flamme qui m'éblouit Fenris Muffin

08-22-2012, 08:42 PM	#7
wilwarin538 Fluttering Enchantment Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,508	I has to make a decision now because I'm about to leave for a very long bus ride. So I'm going to go with the humorous choice, because it was my initial reaction and what I would do in the RL game. ++Lonely Mountain Congrats to who ever made that choice, very clever. For the next few days of the game I won't be posting at all but will be participating still by texting my choices to Boro, I'm sure I will have a lot of interesting things to read when I get home ^_^ __________________ Comme une étoile amarante Comme un papillon de nuit C'est la lumière qui m'attire La flamme qui m'éblouit Fenris Muffin

08-22-2012, 11:22 AM	#1
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	Merry, at the Pelennor Fields. Brilliant choice. The Lonely Mountain gave me a chuckle.

08-22-2012, 08:52 PM	#8
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Congratulations Master Gwath on the very humorous selection. I think everyone got a good laugh at that one. (And yet again, I was tempted to post things such as..."Sure The Lonely Mountain was inhabitted, but it's not just humorous in the name. It's neglected by its own kind...all other Mountains!" ) Well. A bit of a long wait. Safe travels wilwa. Open discussion now, until tomorrow. (Hopefully I will not forget time again tomorrow ) __________________ Fenris Penguin Last edited by Boromir88; 08-22-2012 at 09:27 PM.

08-23-2012, 07:58 AM	#9
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,495	Who picked "The Bath Song" (if you don't mind telling)? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

08-23-2012, 08:31 AM	#11
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,495	Well, the Tolkien Ensemble has a nice version of the Bath Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVf_Vgr7kVk But that's just one interpretation and beside the point anyways. I'm curious about the reasons for choosing it and just who picked it. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

08-23-2012, 09:54 AM	#12
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Tally the phantom - 1 (Honest) Kitanna - 1 (Deadly) Gwath - 1 (Neglected) ---- ROUND 4 Galadriel55 your options for "Insane" are... Tar-Atanamir Gollum/Smeagol Denethor Angband Mouth of Sauron Ted Sandyman Tom Bombadil Fatty Bolger Lobelia Numenor Thorin Oakenshield --- ROUND 5 Green tater: Cuddly (loving, tender, huggable, soft) Judge: MCRmygirl4eva __________________ Fenris Penguin

08-23-2012, 10:12 AM	#13
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Insane (psychotic, deranged, mad) Haha! Denethor and Tom Bombadill surely qualify! And why not Gollum & Thorin... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

08-23-2012, 10:48 AM	#14
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Denethor and Gollum would be the obvious choices. Fatty Bolger is probably the least insane character in the entire mythos...but maybe only a true psychopath could manage to appear so perfectly innocuous. __________________ Stories and songs.

08-23-2012, 11:48 AM	#15
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	I think Nog has the idea- Gollum, Denethor, Bombadil, and Thorin all showed some signs of nuttiness. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.