WW: XCVIII ~ Game Thread ~ Death at the Foot of Taniquetil

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

Talking about Freudian slips?

Nog is being way too entertaining toDay!

Ahem. To business. First off, Sally comments in great length on a discussion she thinks is not really relevant, which strikes me as funny. I mean -

Originally Posted by Sally

I've read through the two pages (thank you so much for making this easy on my brain, my darlings) and I don't think this is quite the issue it has been made out to be. Yes, Nog took this a bit too seriously, perhaps, but he's not campaigning to kill Shasta because of that comment. Let us ignore that exchange for at least the moment and concentrate on other things. Mountains, molehills, and soon, murderous- oh, never mind, Nilp's not playing, so there's no use in being blissfully masochistic. *grump* Still, let's take this easy, at least for toDay.

--

Because he's Nog and, bless him, he can overthink things quite easily. I call no harm on this once more and am now moving on from it. However, this is a prime opportunity for someone to slip in and either side with Nog or try to paint him a villain for jumping on my starry-eyed darling. If this talk does continue, I'll be keeping a much closer eye on those involved.

Both myself and Nog had already dropped the issue at this point. The talk does continue only since Sally took it up again, which makes no sense if she really finds it irrelevant. Makes me raise an eyebrow or two.

Secondly, Boro is being rather noncommittal which worries me. Nevertheless, I can sympathize with him (and Nog) on not wanting to vote for anyone who contributes. Although at least in my case the problem is that I don't really suspect anyone who doesn't!


EDIT: x-ed with 2xSally, Boro, and a third Sally

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

The talk does continue only since Sally took it up again, which makes no sense if she really finds it irrelevant. Makes me raise an eyebrow or two.

Meh. I was commenting as I went along (having gained the benefit of my prior skimming before I read through for that post) and just knew there was more said on the issue. I do believe I said more than needed to be said on a subject that wasn't actually brought up as much as it initially seemed.

More importantly, how many eyebrows do you have, dear?

EDIT: x'd with a reflective Coppermirror

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally

ARE YOU SERIOUS? *checks* Ugh. I am just beyond fired now. I had my player list beside me and everything and still didn't realize- Let us never speak of this again.

No? I was thinking of reminding you of it... every day... for the next fifteen years...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading. Two pages shouldn't take too long.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally

Meh. I was commenting as I went along (having gained the benefit of my prior skimming before I read through for that post) and just knew there was more said on the issue. I do believe I said more than needed to be said on a subject that wasn't actually brought up as much as it initially seemed.

Hmm. That doesn't really make me feel any better about you, if not worse either. There's still the question of, if you thought a certain conversation is futile and a waste of the village's time, why comment on it at all?

Originally Posted by Sally

Also, how many eyebrows do you have, dear?

For future reference: five.

[Nogrod]

Reading this one kind of made me pause for a moment.

Originally Posted by Sally

There are three wolves. If we have no candidates toward Day's end, then fine, sure, let's kill someone who is going to die anyway to in a way buy ourselves more time, but even if Skip is a wolf, he has packmates, and they must likewise be killed. I'd rather go out in a blaze of accidentally nuking the village than to kill villagers in their sleep and hope that we chase out the wolves that way.

So how about turning the thinking upside down?

It seems Skip is not playing and we are having no good candidates - or at least it feels nasty to try and pick anyone with this little to go for - and so Skip is going to be modfired. And we are actually pretty low on players in the first place. So also from the POV of having this game going just a while longer - and thus giving us even a possibility of finding the wolves by some reasoning - we should at least discuss about this kind of damage-management vote toDay. If and when the wolves don't know each other - at least all of them - there is no team-play to be read from this Day either so it is not so bad if all vote the same.

If I have forgotten something important - or you see a way in which this could backfire let me know so I stop advocating it.

And well, it kind of feels like cheating a bit. But let's think about it anyway?

PS. If Skip is not playing he probably hasn't realised the game has begun - so he could be a wolf as well (about 1/3 possibility). It wouldn't sound like Skip to react like "nah, just an ordo, I'm not playing".

[satansaloser2005]

Nog: Given that there is only half an hour left in the Day, I am amenable to an absentee lynch for the sake of damage control. It's not my first choice, but I don't see a whole lot of options right now, so....ugh. I do want to wait as long as possible though, just in case Skip does show up.

I have some things to attend to, but I'll be back shortly before deadline.

[satansaloser2005]

I have to leave like now, kids. Can we just cut the shenanigans and lynch a wolf already?

[Coppermirror]

But before I go:

Originally Posted by MCRmyGirl4eva

Personally, though I can see the reasoning here, I don't think it's quite fair. However, I suppose that could be because I'm on the recieving end. Sorry guys, but at least I informed you, istead of disappearing without a word. That's got to count for something, right?

It is good that you told us you'd be having trouble, really! But the other suspicions about you, well, that's just par for the course in Werewolf. Like you were saying in-character on Day 1, it's hard to trust anyone.

You tried to cast your vote for the Day, right? But you posted it during the Night period of the game, so it won't count. (Probably, unless Kath-mod takes extreme mercy on you.) If you still want to cast a vote, you'll need to do it sometime during Day 3, which is now. And, if you don't cast a vote toDay, you'll be mod-fired.

[A Little Green]

All right, dearies, it's bed-time for me. If I have it right, Pom is the only one with a vote this far. I have my doubts about her, but not enough to give her a second vote. I also considered Nog but decided to give him a pass for now (mainly because everything I've found suspicious about him this far has been stuff I always suspect him for when he's innocent). Or some submarine, for that matter, but Shasta is still coming toDay it seems and I don't want to lynch him before he has the chance to show his quality (heh heh), and MCR had some RL trouble, didn't she? If so, I'd be inclined to give her another Day. Copper has looked innocentish all along and Boro more so after his most recent post. Who I was thinking of is instead

++ Sally

Part gut-feeling, part her inclination to pursue an irrelevant topic; makes no sense for an innocent, makes sense for a wolf. Flimsy, I know, but it's the best I've got.


EDIT: x-ed with everything on this page!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Having some gut-rumblings about my pearl.

Kind of want to vote Boro, though.

And neither of those actually help right now. Hmm.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Nerwen - Pom (Pom1)
Cop - Shasta (Pom1, Shasta1)
Greenie - Sally (Pom1, Shasta1, Sally1)

Is that really all the votes thus far? Isn't deadline in twenty minutes?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

It's the weirdest thing... why would Boro call Nerwen "Nerwen wolf"? Why not just Nerwolf like she's usually called?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

So how about turning the thinking upside down?

It seems Skip is not playing and we are having no good candidates - or at least it feels nasty to try and pick anyone with this little to go for - and so Skip is going to be modfired. And we are actually pretty low on players in the first place. So also from the POV of having this game going just a while longer - and thus giving us even a possibility of finding the wolves by some reasoning - we should at least discuss about this kind of damage-management vote toDay. If and when the wolves don't know each other - at least all of them - there is no team-play to be read from this Day either so it is not so bad if all vote the same.

If I have forgotten something important - or you see a way in which this could backfire let me know so I stop advocating it.

Nog - yes, you have forgotten something important. The wolves win by killing us at Night (and Day). We win by killing wolves by Day. The lynch is pretty much our only weapon, and it's utter madness not to use it. Anyhow, I know this isn't the first time I disagree with you (or someone else) on this topic so I'm not going to argue, but I'd advise strongly against any such plan.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Nog - yes, you have forgotten something important. The wolves win by killing us at Night (and Day). We win by killing wolves by Day. The lynch is pretty much our only weapon, and it's utter madness not to use it.

I agree with the lynch being our only weapon, but we would not be lynching a "probably innocent" like when a lackluster player is lynched just to be on the safe side, but a 1/3 possibility wolf.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I agree with the lynch being our only weapon, but we would not be lynching a "probably innocent" like when a lackluster player is lynched just to be on the safe side, but a 1/3 possibility wolf.

You say that like it's a sure thing...

[Nogrod]

Nice.

Let's all vote different people and let the dice decide then?

Nerwen - Pom
Cop - Shasta
Greenie - Sally
Shasta - Boro

Originally Posted by Shasta

You say that like it's a sure thing...

?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Part gut-feeling, part her inclination to pursue an irrelevant topic; makes no sense for an innocent, makes sense for a wolf.

Who's pursuing it now, darling?

[Nogrod]

Pom's explanations were a bit over--thought (reminded of something come up with afterwards).

Boro is too nice and holding back anything he possibly suspects only talking nice to others.

Skip would be damage-control (and about 1/3 possibility wolf).

I'm still a bit suspicious of Nerwen, even if some would find the reasons for my suspicions overreaching (but there's so little thus far for anything)...

[Nogrod]

Let's see then...

++ Nerwen

Who will blink?

[Pomegranate]

Okay. Real life caught up with me just as stuff started happening, and I will have to vote now, and won't have too much time to analyse the latest proceedings. But some vibes:

I've played with Boro twice. In the first game, he was innocent, and arrogant and aggressive. Actually acting pretty much like this explanation:

Currently my suspicions would be either completely rhetorical or ad hominen..."you're a wolf aren't you? Yes. You are, don't lie!?" Which would only aggrivate and give headaches to everyone.

In the second game he was a wolf and apologetic and like here. And I didn't realise. So now I'm feeling bad vibes.

And that being said, I'd like to follow on Nog's point on lynching a would-be mod-fire. I definitely don't want to get rid of Nog, Coppermirror or Nerwen, even though I'm not by far believing them innocent - they have at least been vocal, I've enjoyed having some company. And I'm not comfortable lynching anyone of the newly appeared people, because I haven't had time to concentrate in what they have said. And this seems reasonable now that I at least feel like I'll have some talk and some actions to analyse, come tomorrow.

++skip spence

Good night.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So...

"I think Boro could be a wolf, and he has a vote, but I'm going to place the first vote on someone who's going to be modfired anyway instead, because reasons."

-raises eyebrow-

[Pomegranate]

Boro did not have a vote when I wrote that, I was crossing with that post.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

I've played with Boro twice. In the first game, he was innocent, and arrogant and aggressive. Actually acting pretty much like this explanation:

The thing people don't understand though is it's draining to keep up that aggression and intensity constantly. So, I save it for times when it's absolutely really necessary.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The thing people don't understand though is it's draining to keep up that aggression and intensity constantly. So, I save it for times when it's absolutely really necessary.

Since when?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Secondly, Boro is being rather noncommittal which worries me. Nevertheless, I can sympathize with him (and Nog) on not wanting to vote for anyone who contributes. Although at least in my case the problem is that I don't really suspect anyone who doesn't!

Good luck finding a guy who does not have some type of commitment issue.

No, but seriously, while yeah noncommital, I could be committed to vote for anyone, except maybe Copper, at this point...if that makes sense? Currently my suspicions would be either completely rhetorical or ad hominen..."you're a wolf aren't you? Yes. You are, don't lie!?" Which would only aggrivate and give headaches to everyone. Try as I might not be a pushy, confrontational stickwad, we should all know it will happen at some point. But I try really hard not to be, because there is the expectation I be highly aggressive and prodding...at the same time it's emotionally taxing. And I just haven't felt like making that investment yet. It will come, usually if and when the situation gets direly desperate it comes. But until then I just try not to be a douche that winds up lynching the seer.

I don't see how it would do any good, but suppose it is more chatter, which is definitely needed. Something seems off with Pom's behavior and posting. Even the "Yeah my posts are strained" was weird, because then she pivots to griping about the limitted posts again.

And Nog is definitely paranoid, but as sally said...it is Nog.

But considering these two had been the most contributing so far, I didn't want to bother with vague feelings of offedness, just have a mental note to watch and wait. Since, as I said, I'm a firm believer the chatty wolves all hang on their wolves and actions at some point. But if they're chatty innocents than it's not worth losing them early on, especially with a relatively substantial "under the radar" group.

Edit: crossed with Greenie a few times and Shasta

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And Nog is definitely paranoid

Or just creative in trying to look for different possibilities for lycantrophy?

Someone has to do that too.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Boro used the exact same wording, "shot in the dark", before Rune did.

Well picked. I mean that might be exactly a kind of phrase a wolf might wish to use trying ot signal out. The problem of course being so might an innocent as it is quite a common idiom...

And yes, these are just trying to catch even tiny bits of things from here and there in hopes that they start to pile up at one time or another. And I do still think trying to signal other wolves is a wolf's number one priority...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Boro's post #13 is the first thing that really caught my eye, especially his vote and reason behind it -

Originally Posted by Boro

++Nerwen

Do, I think Nerwen wolf would howl as she did? Meh. Probably not, but it's no different than any other shot in the dark reason.

It makes me think he doesn't care one bit about the lynch, so long as it's not him - and I can very easily see a wolf falling into that mindset this game.

Originally Posted by MCR

I seem to be having difficult making a decision as well. I've looked through at others' viewpoints, and they all seem reasonable. However, I've got to agree with Coppermirror. Rune gave little to the discussion, and his post was quite short.

Now, I don't want to pick on the newbie, but this seems a little one-sided, considering Boro's post was just as short, as were Pom's. Could be a case of newbie-wolfism.

Nogrod does the same thing, almost -

Originally Posted by Nogrod

That said - and here's my second thought for the moment. Of those posted I could say that Nerwen's "howl" and Rune's emphasis on his vote being "a shot in the dark" look the most plausible candidates for the wolves trying to signal each other.

- failing to note that Boro used the exact same wording, "shot in the dark", before Rune did.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But my question is, why do you feel the need to bring that up? With a smiley?

Oh no. Cursed smiley. It seems I have been caught. No one ever uses smileys unless they're evil, so clearly I'm... wait, what?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And this later thought that two wolves know each other and thusly their choices are less likely to succeed must be bore in mind.

This, I agree with, though. Given the no-kill last night, I think it's most likely that two wolves know each other. What are the rules on if a group of two wolves that know each other send a list, but the third wolf does not (i.e. are inactive)?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I mean he could have posted something of some substance, any comment on the game, anything, something, but all he did was that.

No I couldn't have. All I'd done was skim a bit before getting one post in in case I didn't wake up in time (I promptly went out after that and knew I wouldn't be awake again until late in the Day).

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Boro's post #13 is the first thing that really caught my eye, especially his vote and reason behind it -

It makes me think he doesn't care one bit about the lynch, so long as it's not him - and I can very easily see a wolf falling into that mindset this game.

Yes, but important distinction...I don't care about the lynch as long as it's not the seer. If it so happens I am a top lynch suspect, this you can trust me on, I won't fight it much and I definitely won't bite. It might be disappointing for you to hear this, considering how you might feel about biters.

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

Now, I don't want to pick on the newbie, but this seems a little one-sided, considering Boro's post was just as short, as were Pom's. Could be a case of newbie-wolfism.

Thanks for not picking on me, but ouch... you think I could be a wolf? I'm too adorable for that! Haha.

MCR: She seemed earnest and serious. She followed my vote for Rune, but for a different reason than my vote. This might, possibly, have been something she would consider a safe, non-suspicious vote. She's not going to be around much, and that worries me.

Personally, though I can see the reasoning here, I don't think it's quite fair. However, I suppose that could be because I'm on the recieving end. Sorry guys, but at least I informed you, istead of disappearing without a word. That's got to count for something, right?

Okay, I have to vote pretty early today, since I don't have much time left on the computer.

He hasn't put his mind out very much, he's mostly been keeping to himself. A bit too quiet for my taste.

So my vote is for:

++ Boromir88

My alternate choice would have been Nogrod, but as he seems to be one of the main factors keeping the game going, I have decided against it.

[satansaloser2005]

MCR, the Day is over. It is now Night, and we are not allowed to post. The Day will open in approximately four hours. Until then, if you have any in-game comments, please keep them to yourself. If you have any meta issues, post them on the admin thread. Thank you!

*curls up, goes back to sleep for the rest of the Night*

[Kath]

Sorry for late start to the Day - computer issues. Just sorting PMs now and then the narration will be up in a few minutes.

[Kath]

The wolves were angry. The death of one of their fellows had incensed them so that the entire village shook with the force of their howls that Night. It was too much for one poor villager.

Nog, trembling as he ran, attempted a foolish escape attempt. Despite every caution he could take, he was set upon even as he reached the woods. His desperate screams were heard by the village, but none dared leave the safety of their own homes.

It was with heavy hearts that the villagers made their way to the site of the massacre once sunlight broke over the little town. Trails of sticky bloody and torn clothing led them to the barely recognisable corpse. The fury of the wolves had been abated as they had played with Nog's body ... for now.

Dead:
Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)
Shasta (innocent villager)
skip (wolf - modfired)
Nog (innocent villager)

Living:
Nerwen
Greenie
sally
Boro
Pom
Coppermirror
MCR

Villagers you can post again now.

MCR make sure that you post and vote toDay so you don't get modfired.

[Coppermirror]

Nogrod on Day 1

- worried that the most vocal/obvious/high profile players could be targets because of the wolf voting dynamics

- suggested an "if we all act like wolves toDay it makes the voting quite random" strategy

- didn't agree (with whom?) that the wolves would be especially underhand in this game

- said we can't find wolves on D1 by the most common method of tracking their relationships to their mates, and that we can't use the Day's voting for solid evidence either

- thinks Nerwen and Rune's posts look the most like wolves trying to signal each other, but that there is little to go on

- thinks something Pom said might be a little fishy

Check this post for his full suspicions of each person at the time (I don't have time to write it all up right now) http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...3&postcount=22

- decides to vote for someone who posted rather than someone who hasn't

- "So Nerwen might have tried to signal a mate or not (it's soo 50-50 to say), Pom might have just revealed she was thinking this so heavily from the POV of the wolves she kind of didn't realise what the position of us innocents is - or then she just didn't tihnk of it enough..."

- decides in the end to tie the vote by voting for Pom, hoping to see if anyone would show up to break the tie.


I'll come back later to go through Nog's Day 2. But if anyone else wants to go ahead and do it first, that's fine by me. I won't be back for at least a couple of hours.

[Coppermirror]

Nogrod on Day 2

- Thinks there's at least one inactive wolf, due to the lack of night kill.

- Considers that perhaps two wolves knew each other and that's why there was no night kill. (We now know this can't be true.)

- Questions Shasta (now proven innocent) about a post and a smiley.

- General talk about encouraging people to post.

- Explains some things to Pom about his Day 1 reasoning, saying that he thought some things Pom said made more sense if looked at from the perspective of a wolf who wasn't seeing things like a villager. Admits that his Day 1 reasoning was thin and uncertain.

- Says "It is interesting how there seems to be a collective meme around that I "jumped" on Shasta".

- Asks Greenie why she isn't calling Nerwen's statement that he jumped on Shasta a case of him being jumped on in turn. Says the issue is making mountains out of molehills and he won't talk about this issue again unless he's in danger of being lynched.

- Says that I'm posting a lot but not suspecting many people, Boro is talking too nicely and scaring him, and Greenie is likely more innocent than not, but he's more likely than not to vote for a submarine that's not going to be mod-fired.

- Says that it seems we have no good candidates for lynching and it seems nasty to pick anyone with this little to go on, and so suggests we lynch Skip Spence (wolf) as damage control so we have more time for reasoning later.

- Talks with Shasta about Boromir using the phrase "shot in the dark" before Rune did. Thinks that might be a phrase a wolf could use for signaling...or that an innocent could have used it just as common idiom.

- Defends the lynching Skip idea to Greenie on the grounds that Skip had 1/3 odds of being a wolf.

- Suggests that we all vote for different people and decide by dice . At this point 4 people had already voted, and all for different people.

- Says Pom's explanations were a bit over-thought and might have been made up afterwards, Boro is "is too nice and holding back anything he possibly suspects only talking nice to others", Skip would be damage control, and he's still a little suspicious of Nerwen even if others might think he's overreaching. Adds that there's still little to go on.

- Votes for Nerwen. Wants to see who will blink. 6-way tie! (Would have been 7 if Sally's vote for Nog counted.)

- Explains that he wanted to try something completely different, and that "It probably serves us better than our reasoning as there is little or none of it - because there is nothing to go on - not only because of quietness but also because there are no wolf-co-operations either."

And then he gets killed overNight.

So, why might he have been killed?

Option (A). The wolves thought he was the Seer because of correct guesses.

It could be because of his suggestion to lynch Skip, who turned out to be a wolf. But as Nerwen said, this is unlikely unless Skip was a random Night 1 dream.

At the end of Day 2 it seemed as if his greatest suspicions were of Boro, Pom and Nerwen. It looked as if he was the most suspicious of Boro out of those.

But they could also have gone by correct guesses of innocence. If that's the case, then...actually he didn't seem to be too confident of anyone's innocence.

Option (B). He was an active player, probably the most active one we had.

Option (C). Killing Nog would cast doubt on someone else. That would most likely be the people Nog was suspicious of yesterDay. But there are some complications to this: wouldn't the wolves be gunning for the Seer?

Option (D). Traceless kill. I don't think this is likely.

So overall, I'd guess that it's more likely to be option (A). But it might make a difference whether or not the wolves are in contact. If someone has the time, could you work out the odds of that?

I probably won't be back until an hour or so before the deadline. Here's hoping that activity picks up.

[satansaloser2005]

Some more quick things, and then I believe I have something to announce.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Sally's shown up, and is posting plenty of content.

No, really, I haven't. I've been posting vague things because I'm rushed and tired. Don't give me more credit than I deserve.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

It's the weirdest thing... why would Boro call Nerwen "Nerwen wolf"? Why not just Nerwolf like she's usually called?

My prince? Do you have an answer to this question (or did you respond and I missed it)?

[Coppermirror]

Seriously, there's been this little discussion? I hoped there'd be something more to help decide, but at this rate there's hardly any more info than yesterDay. At least looking through the posts from the beginning earlier has helped.

People who look suspicious to me right now are:
Boromir: He's sounding very evasive, and people say he's acting unusually for an innocent Boro. Nog and Shasta were both suspicious of him. I think Boro said he didn't want to post much by way of suspicions; I understand that in a game with this little activity there's so little to base an opinion on, but it's best to at least try, and it looks as if he's not trying.

Sally: So little content that it's near-impossible to judge her. She did vote for Nog, although it wasn't counted, but I could imagine someone who isn't a wolf doing that too. It's a bit of a weak decision, to try to turn it into a 7-way tie, but eh, it was already a ridiculous situation anyway. Voting for people based on a lack of content has worked out badly so far, so toDay I won't vote for Sally.

MCR: Will probably get mod-fired, and has posted very little. Her first vote seemed reasonable enough. She did seem to be rather worked up about a few people who had very mild suspicions of her, which might indicate wolfishness. On the other hand this is her first game, so she can't be used to being suspected. Anyway, she's likely to get mod-fired, so there's no point in voting for her.

Nerwen: Very difficult to read.

Pom: I suspected her a lot over the first two Days, but after reading her posts over again on Day 2 I started to think my assumptions were wrong. Still on the fence about her.

I have to vote ASAP, so I'll probably vote for Boro in a moment, since I suspect him the most right now.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Having some gut-rumblings about my pearl

Who's Shasta's pearl? (There seem to be two people using pet names with him, so I don't know.) He seems to suspect them.

EDIT: cross posted with a bunch of people

[satansaloser2005]

My prince! *runs away in tears*