Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Manwe

You are wanting a very transparent game aren't you tp?

Heh- just willing to float any idea to see if it'll give an edge.

And to Boro- yes, exactly, that's what I mean about Elendil electing not to have a Night 1 dream. Strategically he may have thought it better to play it safe and wait for Amandil to show up etc. I think really it's down to personality.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Elendil gets his dream result from the Moddess, and shares them with the person of their choice, right?

Nope. Elendil doesn't see any results. He chooses the dreamer and the dream and then it's out of his hands. He gets nothing. It's a very interesting role.

Originally Posted by Eomer

About Isildur's power to save a lynchee, what would happen if no-one in the village voted on Day One? Is this against the rules?

Hmmmm.... I'll have to think about that when I'm less distracted....

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Nope. Elendil doesn't see any results. He chooses the dreamer and the dream and then it's out of his hands. He gets nothing. It's a very interesting role.

The missing link. I was stuck on this from the Admin Thread:

Every Night [Elendil] reveals the role of one other player to a third player.

By "reveals the role", I was reading that Elendil himself would know what he revealed. All righty then.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I had such plans for this role, too - I was going to be all quasi-Seerish and get murdered. Sigh.

Oh well. Hi, I'm your friendly neighborhood Amandil.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I had such plans for this role, too - I was going to be all quasi-Seerish and get murdered.

Not if I have anything to say about it. I need my darling psychic. *nuzzles you*

I'm here, kiddos. I'll be home in two hours or so and can actually manage more than just snark, but I am certainly around and reading.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And to Boro- yes, exactly, that's what I mean about Elendil electing not to have a Night 1 dream. Strategically he may have thought it better to play it safe and wait for Amandil to show up etc. I think really it's down to personality.

True, but if there was a Night 1 recipient it would be easy enough for Elendil to check if Amandil reveals today. Send the Night 1 recipient to Amandil, and if KM then the possible damage would be minimized. If not, then Elendil knows he can trust the dream sent to the Night 1 recipient.

Edit: crossed with Shasta...well then

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Regarding Isildur... eh. I'm kind of on Inzil's side in that I'm also reluctant to have two Gifted revealed this early, and I also feel like we should still lynch someone today. But then I'm well known to be bloodthirsty.

[the phantom]

Shasta- you lucky dog! When looking over the roles I can tell you Amandil is the one that jumped out at me- "Gah! I should've looked this over sooner and begged the Moddess for that role! I could reveal immediately and push people around!"

But the task of pushing people around instead falls to you. So... any orders?

I assume you're nixing Eomer's idea for a no-vote after that last post.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Shasta- you lucky dog! When looking over the roles I can tell you Amandil is the one that jumped out at me- "Gah! I should've looked this over sooner and begged the Moddess for that role! I could reveal immediately and push people around!"

But the task of pushing people around instead falls to you. So... any orders?

I assume you're nixing Eomer's idea for a no-vote after that last post.

Well, yes. I don't feel like we should be wasting time - it almost always turns out poorly.

As for orders, though... hmm.

Dance for me, minions!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Supposing the KMs do ignore me in favor of looking for Elendil, though - as far as I could tell, Elendil can reveal to the same person twice in a row.

Actually, scratch that train of thought. If the KMs think they can kill me off and negate a dream, it might actually be worth it to them. Probably a good idea to vary the recipients. Or am I wrong?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Question for the consensus - suppose Elendil reveals someone to me and they end up being Anarion or Isildur. Ought I mention giftedness? Or stick with innocence?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Supposing the KMs do ignore me in favor of looking for Elendil, though - as far as I could tell, Elendil can reveal to the same person twice in a row.

Per The Rules, it's no more than twice in a row.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Actually, scratch that train of thought. If the KMs think they can kill me off and negate a dream, it might actually be worth it to them. Probably a good idea to vary the recipients. Or am I wrong?

Sending to a different person each Night increases the odds of giving info to a baddie, but also could create havoc for them by having so much info in the hands of the village. I think it's the right way to go.

x/d with Shasta and Lottie

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Dance for me, minions!

If you don't mind, some LotR characters would like to get in on the action.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Probably a good idea to vary the recipients. Or am I wrong?

If Elendil sent a dream Night 1 then logically he'll send you his dream recipient tonight. If you find the target innocent then you declare "Person X is innocent" and then they step up and say "and my Night 1 dream was Person Y and they were innocent/guilty".

Unless someone can think of a better suggestion I figure that's certain to happen.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Question for the consensus - suppose Elendil reveals someone to me and they end up being Anarion or Isildur. Ought I mention giftedness? Or stick with innocence?

I suppose just stick with innocence, for, as I said earlier, the KMs will logically avoid killing dream choices because they're guaranteed not to be Elendil, but if you straight up tell them "Gifted" then maybe they will take the opportunity?

Or actually... Hmm... I dunno if they would or not. It still doesn't rid them of Elendil.

But of course if they do successfully bump off Elendil they know where the next Gifted can be found. Bleh... I need time to think about this more clearly.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Inzil

Sending to a different person each Night increases the odds of giving info to a baddie, but also could create havoc for them by having so much info in the hands of the village. I think it's the right way to go.

The reason I mentioned it is, supposing Anarion protects me tonight, I'll be alive and unprotected tomorrow night. If Elendil elects to send me a second dream in order to have the public voice, the KM might bite the bullet and kill me when it will do the most damage by negating a dream.

Also, duly noted - "innocent" it is. Now that that's out of the way, it's probably a good idea to move on. I'll need to reread the thread - no one's jumped out at me yet.

[Inziladun]

Ok, then. So Amandil is exposed. It's against my nature to trust Shasta, especially this early, but there you are.

So, what now? I would still say we ought to vote today.

x/d with all since #50.

[Brinniel]

Well, toDay seems a bit busier than most Day Ones I recall. At least I wasn't expecting to process so much info right away. But hey, substance is always a good thing. My brain's just feeling slightly overwhelmed...I don't know whether to attribute that to my headache or lack of WWing over the years. Maybe both.

Originally Posted by phantom

Do you see any drawbacks to everyone randomly listing 3 "guilty" names each day thus providing Elendil a clear indication on whether his dream recipient found his dream target to be guilty?

This could work as long as these lists are truly regarded by everyone else as random. Because the only drawback I can see is that if other people start using these lists to judge guilt or innocence, that could lead to a big mess. Innocents have a difficult enough time guessing one guilty player early on so it's unlikely that they'll be able to give a strong reasoning to why they think three players are evil. So voting against someone simply because of their list could lead to a lot of innocent lynches. And later on, we certainly can't use a known wolf's lists to identify innocents.

As for not voting, as difficult as it may be to identify the baddies on Day 1, I'm not sure not voting anyone would be a good idea. For one thing, if anyone ends up missing the deadline toMorrow to vote, they would be modfired.

Also, was anything mentioned regarding retractable votes? It would be good to know considering retractable votes can greatly impact the outcome of a lynch.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

This could work as long as these lists are truly regarded by everyone else as random.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this. I think it's pretty neutral in terms of the rest of the gameplay if they are regarded as actually random, since it affects everyone the same way.

[Eönwë]

People that are slightly unsettling/a bit off:

Eomer- Posts nothing of substance except for the post suggesting not getting a lynch at all today.

Sally- Her post on Isildur is pretty good, but other than that, I'm not really getting a good feeling from her other posts.

Other than that, the phantom and Pom seem pretty good, Shasta has revealed and there hasn't been a counter, I'm not sure whether I like whatBoro's doing or not, I'm feeling mixed about Zil, and I'm really uncertain about anyone else.

[Loslote]

Also, if we're ever going to use those lists, toDay would be the Day. After all, we know (almost for sure) that someone got a dream, and that Elendil didn't know who Amandil was. So...

Random People Who, If I Had Dreamed Them, Would Be Guilty - Or At Least Not Innocent
Eonwe
Pomegranate
Zil

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Not Innocent People If I Saw Them Under The Pale Moonlight
Boro
Lottie
Manwe

Fair enough.

[the phantom]

So, does anyone see a problem with the dream target/recipient outline I presented three posts up? If not then I suggest we assume it is in operation.

(I realize Elendil may feel like I'm taking away his freedom or something, but I think it makes sense to have him serve the village in a predictable and organized manner rather than shoot from the hip, particularly if he doesn't have ample time to strategize. Similarly, I hope you don't think I sabotaged your game too much by clamoring for a reveal, Shasta.)

Anyway, yeah, my list of three... I'll just go with the 3 I mentioned earlier, except one of them is the revealed Amandil so that would be just stupid. So... Inzil, Nerwen, Lottie then.

[Inziladun]

I'll go with:

1.Sally
2.Morsul
3.Nerwen

x/d with Steve

[Pomegranate]

Lottie, Eonwe, Inzil. Now some more catching up - I'll need to go to bed pretty soon, it's been a long day, and thus will have to vote. I think I will indeed vote - if you guys decide it's better to not have a lynch today, you can just tie it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by the phantom

So, does anyone see a problem with the dream target/recipient outline I presented three posts up? If not then I suggest we assume it is in operation.

(I realize Elendil may feel like I'm taking away his freedom or something, but I think it makes sense to have him serve the village in a predictable and organized manner rather than shoot from the hip, particularly if he doesn't have ample time to strategize. Similarly, I hope you don't think I sabotaged your game too much by clamoring for a reveal, Shasta.)

Anyway, yeah, my list of three... I'll just go with the 3 I mentioned earlier, except one of them is the revealed Amandil so that would be just stupid. So... Inzil, Nerwen, Lottie then.

Oh, the usual attitude of "Dangit Phantom, stop being so controlling!" is there, and I admit I do have the urge to go entirely contrary to the plan just to prove I can, but as stated already, my big plan was to look very Seer-ish and then get murdered early, so I imagine I'm helping out more in this capacity.

[Eönwë]

So, it looks like my didn't factor in last Night's dream when considering the positives and negatives of either Elendil-plan. The chain seems unbreakable as long as a dream goes through.

Three-people random list

Pros
*Keeps those found innocent safe.
*Elendil has more people to hide among.

Cons
*General knowledge dies with Elendil- each person given a dream could only know one identity, and so any claims would be impossible to prove until one of the two dies.
*Elendil has to reveal at some point to be of any use.

Neutral
*Gives everyone amnesty from their 3-people choice.



Open reveals

Pros
*People have innocents whose opinions they can trust.
*Wolves can be revealed straight away.
*Elendil doesn't have to reveal.

Cons
*Elendil has a dwindling number of people to hide behind.
*Gifteds become known innocents, and so become easier targets for the KMs.



I have an alternative suggestion: We do the 3-person thing, but when someone finds a KM they reveal. A person on the good side would die anyway that Night, so at least they take down a KM with them. And if there's a counter-claim of some sort, at least we have a known KM between the two of them.


edit: x-ed with Shasta