A question about advancements of weaponry

[Inziladun]

As technologically advanced as Númenor was in Pharazôn's time, I don't see them having any sort of WMD capability. After all, some of the King's Men escaped the Downfall, becoming the enemies of Gondor. If that sort of technology had been available, surely they'd have used it against Gondor at some point?

Speaking of WMDs in Middle-earth, Sauron apparently used bioterror weapons in the Third Age. Good thing he didn't pass that along to the Easterlings or Southrons.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

As technologically advanced as Númenor was in Pharazôn's time, I don't see them having any sort of WMD capability. After all, some of the King's Men escaped the Downfall, becoming the enemies of Gondor. If that sort of technology had been available, surely they'd have used it against Gondor at some point?

I am not talking about Atomic weapons and napalm bombs. I am talking about dynamite and primitive guns.

I think that the greatest of the kings men would be at the invasion. It was said to be the greatest armada that had been seen. If they did have any secret weapons then it would have been kept at Numenor to be used for this invasion.

Speaking of WMDs in Middle-earth, Sauron apparently used bioterror weapons in the Third Age. Good thing he didn't pass that along to the Easterlings or Southrons.

Biological weapons have been used for thousands of years, when it was just throwing dead cattle into the enemy battlements.

What Sauron did is probably breed some from of disease or easier still just transport a disease that had already been found in the south or east.

[Galadriel55]

Is it possible that in Pharazon's time gunpowder was, actually, legitimately, not invented yet? I mean, not invented at all? Are there references to it before Saruman's and Sauron's late Third Age battles?

As for the plagues, they could have just been plagues. Imagine living next-door to a place as filthy as Mordor or Angband. Every once in a while, epecially with Morgoth's/Sauron's guiding hand, some epidemic is bound to errupt. I do believe they have had a part to play in it by guiding/directing/enforcing it, but they did not have to overtax themselves with conjuring diseases.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

When that backdrop fades away, technology (and weapons...) grows stronger, and so does the physical power of the kingdom (perhaps), but it's not in fool bloom anymore.

<chuckle> Come to think of it, "fool" bloom may actually be an accurate description after all.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Is it possible that in Pharazon's time gunpowder was, actually, legitimately, not invented yet?

Possibly not. Men of Middle Earth seem to have regressed during the Second Age (at least compared to the Edain of Beleriand under Noldorin tutelage). That civilization seems to have been represented as comparable to the Western European Dark or Middle Ages - which was before Gunpowder appeared in that region - (I think we can discount the Arab and Cathay learning which would have been far in the South or East of the places our tales center - the North West of Middle Earth).

If the knowledge existed in the South or East of Middle Earth, the tales that survive to us (primarily via the Red Book) don't say.

The Numenoreans, following the lead and learning of the Noldor and other Eldar, seem to have developed their own arts and "technology" (if that is even the right word). Consider the work they did fashioning the citadel of Orthanc. They may not have felt the need for such devices - may even have had their own "tools" that were more powerful but whose secrets have since been lost.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

As for the plagues, they could have just been plagues.

Quite probably, I think. However, it's also possible that Sauron had a hand in starting them - as the Great Plague served his purposes well (esp of unmanning the forts guarding Mordor). Even if it's only a matter of instructing his subservient peoples in the east to ignor such tedious things as sanitation, and then chasing plague carriers out of their homes and into the West as "refugees".

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

<chuckle> Come to think of it, "fool" bloom may actually be an accurate description after all.

The things I say when I don't pay attention!

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

Quite probably, I think. However, it's also possible that Sauron had a hand in starting them - as the Great Plague served his purposes well (esp of unmanning the forts guarding Mordor). Even if it's only a matter of instructing his subservient peoples in the east to ignor such tedious things as sanitation, and then chasing plague carriers out of their homes and into the West as "refugees".

I think that is Sauron had a hand in them (which I do believe he did), it was more on the metaphysical side than the medical/sanitarian side. I think it was he that brought the elements of fear and darkness into it. Every plague has a bit of that, but I mean the supernatural qualities of fear and darkness.