Seven Stars, Seven Stones and One White Tree...

[Ardent]

Originally Posted by Gordis

"what hinders Aragorn's star from being ONE of the seven stars?"
We don't know of six others. Aragorn's star was unique, a symbol of Royalty, like a crown.

According to Bilbo's poem 'Earendil Was A Mariner', the star on Earendil's crown is the last of the three Silmarils [thanks for the edit Aganzir]. Aragorn instructed Bilbo to place a green gem on Earendil's breast, thus placing himself in the picture since this is what he wears.

It is unclear whether the actual jewel in his crown is the very star of Earendil, or just an emblem, but it is identified in the index of 'Lord of the Rings' (under star, as emblem) as a diamond shaped star on the banner of Gondor, along with the six other stars of Elendil and his captains.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Ardent

According to Bilbo's poem 'Earendil Was A Mariner', the star on Earendil's crown is the last of the three Palantiri.

No it's actually the last of the three Silmarils. Of the Palantíri there were seven.

It is unclear whether the actual jewel in his crown is the very star of Earendil, or just an emblem, but it is identified in the index of 'Lord of the Rings' (under star, as emblem) as a diamond shaped star on the banner of Gondor, along with the six other stars of Elendil and his captains.

I have no references, but I believe the descendents of Eärendil might just have happened to be very keen on green jewels after his little trip.

Welcome to the Downs!

[Ardent]

Thanks for the welcome Aganzir. I don't know how I typed 'Palantiri' but I meant 'Silmarils' as you say.

As to Aragorn's green gem I'm not sure if it was a family trend to wear such gems or if it was supposed to be the actual heirloom handed down from Earendil. The same ambiguity surrounds Aragorn's relationship to Beren; are Aragorn and Arwen reincarnations of Beren and Luthien or are they 'of a type' with them?
The same goes for the star in his crown; is the star sailing with Earendil in the sky, is it in the crown of Gondor, or even in the phial of Galadriel?

Part of the wonder of these tales is that they do not have to be 'either/or'; they can be both.

[Aiwendil]

As to Aragorn's green gem I'm not sure if it was a family trend to wear such gems or if it was supposed to be the actual heirloom handed down from Earendil.

Aragorn's green gem was the Elessar. Earendil's green gem was also the Elessar, but it is not certain whether it was the same gem, or whether Aragorn's had been made in memory of Earendil's. Tolkien's notes on the subject can be found in Unfinished Tales, in the chapter 'The History of Galadriel and Celeborn'.

Also, welcome to the 'Downs, Ardent! I agree that the ambiguities and alternative versions of Tolkien's stories are part of what makes them so appealing.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Ardent

I don't know how I typed 'Palantiri' but I meant 'Silmarils' as you say.

Yes, I figured as much.

It would be cool to have Eärendil travel with a Palantír though - a bit like satellite images!

[Ardent]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

... Tolkien's notes on the subject can be found in Unfinished Tales, in the chapter 'The History of Galadriel and Celeborn'...

With regard to Tolkien's notes, a further possible explanation of the seven stars comes to mind: that the stars can themselves be people.

In the fall of Gondolin Glorfindel plunges to his death in battle with a balrog, but in Tolkien's notes he is brought back to live in Valinor from whence he returns to Middle Earth with the Maia, including Olorin (Gandalf). At the ford of Bruinen Glorfindel reveals himself as a being of light in order to drive the Nazgul into the flood. Gandalf reveals himself in a similar way at various points in Lord of the Rings, even falling in a repeat of Glorfindel's battle, while Galadriel repeats Gandalf's trick of transformation when offered the Ring. These are examples of dual natures, I'm sure there are others that are more or less explicit.

[Snowdog]

Quenta Silmarillion 19, Of Beren and Lúthien
"And in answer he sang a song of challenge that he had made in praise of the Seven Stars, the Sickle of the Valar that Varda hung above the North as a sign for the fall of Morgoth."

It seems, with the exception of Mithalwen, that Groin Redbeard's quote has been either overlooked or ignored. The seven stars of the Sickle of Varda was in the night sky over the Northern Kingdom of Arnor. Though I'm not sure it's mentioned anywhere, I think it was a part of Arnor's banner, and Arwen made the seven stars a part of the united kingdom banner that Aragorn unfurled on the Corsair ship as he came upriver.

[Galadriel55]

The stars are probably called that because of Gondor's flag. But what do they represent on the flag? Sickle, ships, it all works.

[Ardent]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

...The seven stars of the Sickle of Varda was in the night sky over the Northern Kingdom of Arnor...

Presumably this would also explain why they were incorporated into Durin's emblems on the gates of Moria. Wasn't Eregion/Hollin part of the realm of Arnor?

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Ardent

Presumably this would also explain why they were incorporated into Durin's emblems on the gates of Moria. Wasn't Eregion/Hollin part of the realm of Arnor?

I suppose it depends whether or not the stars of Kheled-zâram were the same as the Sickle of the Valar.
Here's a link I stumbled upon which argues that Durin's Crown was a different constellation to the Valacirca:
http://dwarrowscholar.mymiddleearth....ven-astronomy/

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Ardent

Presumably this would also explain why they were incorporated into Durin's emblems on the gates of Moria. Wasn't Eregion/Hollin part of the realm of Arnor?

Theoretically maybe but I think durin's crown wasanother name for the same stars. In our own world the southern cross is incorporated in to various flags perhaps most notably on the flags of Australia and new zealand.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Ardent

Presumably this would also explain why they were incorporated into Durin's emblems on the gates of Moria.

From the earliest sketch of the Moria gate, the Stars of Durin were simply clustered regularly around the perimeter of the crown, not in the form of any constellation (although I suppose if one squints just right they might be the Pleiades)

Wasn't Eregion/Hollin part of the realm of Arnor?

Certainly not at that time: Arnor wouldn't come into being for over 2000 years when the Gate was made!

(Even then, Arnor's southern border at its greatest extent was the Greyflood, so it wouldn't have included Hollin.)