The Maiar

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Findegil

Morgoth did that with the whole world ('Arda was Morgoth Ring').

Which, for me, adds an extra "flavor" to a tale of the prophecy of the Dagorath that it was only at the end of Time (i.e. the end of the sotry of Ea "whos life is time") that Melkor would receive "his death and final end".

Sauron could not be finally reduced to irrecoverable impotence (at least to a point from which HE could not recover himself) until his Ring was destroyed. So Melkor could not be finally so reduced until *HIS* Ring (all of Middle Earth) was destroyed.
He could be cast out (through the door of night) and a watch set on the ramparts of the sky against his return, but the watch was only needed be cause, otherwise, it was possible FOR him to return. Once Time ended and his Ring (Arda) was ended, then he himself could, finally, be dealt his final end.

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

Sauron could not be finally reduced to irrecoverable impotence (at least to a point from which HE could not recover himself) until his Ring was destroyed. So Melkor could not be finally so reduced until *HIS* Ring (all of Middle Earth) was destroyed.

That's how I've always interpreted the idea of 'Morgoth's Ring' as well.

The analogy with Sauron's Ring is also interesting if you consider the effect that the Ring had on its bearers. If the One Ring tended to corrupt one who wore it, or even possessed it, then Arda itself must, through its 'Melkorian Element' have a tendency to corrupt those who dwell in it.

It is perhaps taking the analogy too far to wonder whether, since the One Ring could only be unmade in the fires of Mt. Doom, where it was forged, can Arda only be unmade through the power of the Flame Imperishable with which Iluvatar brought it into being?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

It is perhaps taking the analogy too far to wonder whether, since the One Ring could only be unmade in the fires of Mt. Doom, where it was forged, can Arda only be unmade through the power of the Flame Imperishable with which Iluvatar brought it into being?

That's sensible to me. Since creation had its beginning in Eru, utter destruction must be of him as well.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That's sensible to me. Since creation had its beginning in Eru, utter destruction must be of him as well.

There is an interesting (tho short) commentary on "The End" (of Middle Earth) in UT "Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin". Ulmo, when he spoke to Tuor, spoke of a rift in the armor of fate and a breach in the walls of Doom "until the full-making, which ye call the End."

I think that harkens back to Tolkien's description of the History of Arda as a Great Drama: like Eru is writing a living play; And "the End" is simply the completion of the Play - the "Full Making". But, of course, if the story of Arda is simply a Play, that implies something greater and more "real" outside the Playhouse. And that can be intriguing - even if it is not essential to enjoy the story itself.

[Findegil]

That the End comes from Eru himself is seen Ainulindale, where it is Eru that ends the play.

Respectfully
Findegil