Zaentz countersues the Estate

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Hard to beat?

Since Zaentz has now put "the fame and good will developed in these marks, products, goods, and services" in factual contention, it hangs a curveball out over the plate for the TE's lawyers to bring on a whole parade of tacky, vulgar, tasteless crap ZaentzCo has willingly licensed over the years (and contrast it with the licensing proposals Christopher has rejected for being tacky, vulgar and tasteless.)

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Hard to beat?

Since Zaentz has now put "the fame and good will developed in these marks, products, goods, and services" in factual contention, it hangs a curveball out over the plate for the TE's lawyers to bring on a whole parade of tacky, vulgar, tasteless crap ZaentzCo has willingly licensed over the years (and contrast it with the licensing proposals Christopher has rejected for being tacky, vulgar and tasteless.)

*fingers his Lurtz figurine*

Why, William, whatever are you talking about?

*takes a sip from his Burger King Gandalf glass*

Are you implying that Zaentz-approved merchandise is tacky?

*pulls at the snug neck of his Gollum t-shirt, newly removed from packaging*

Well, I'd like to debate this more fully, but I have very little time...

*looks irritably at his Map-of-Middle-earth wrist watch*

...you see, I am just finishing up lunch...

*picks the last of his sandwich off his Legolas-embossed dinner plate*

...and I must return to work.

*pulls his Lord of the Rings key chain out of his pocket*

I will continue this discussion...

*Glares at his "The Two Towers: Extended Edition" calendar*

...Thursday next.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I will continue this discussion...

*Glares at his "The Two Towers: Extended Edition" calendar*

...Thursday next.

Funny, I could almost swear that should be "Thursday Next", since we do seem to have a parallel universe where certain Tolkien goods are dodgy.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Morsul

What I'm saying is it comes down to the jury. If they get a very book friendly crowd the estate will do better if they get a bunch of tv watchers who only read texcts then Zainst has the advantage.

Two points, Morsul. Firstly, as Beth points out, these kind of things mostly don't get that far. Secondly, well, you seem to have a very odd idea of how a trial by jury works, anyway. I mean, you seem to think that what happens in court is basically irrelevant, and all that matters is what side the jurors "liked" best at the outset.

(And even on those terms, it's not as if Zaentz actually made the films...)

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Two points, Morsul. Firstly, as Beth points out, these kind of things mostly don't get that far. Secondly, well, you seem to have a very odd idea of how a trial by jury works, anyway. I mean, you seem to think that what happens in court is basically irrelevant, and all that matters is what side the jurors "liked" best at the outset.

(And even on those terms, it's not as if Zaentz actually made the films...)

Have you seen the court system? It's ALL about emotion. What happens in the court has to be outstanding to reverse someone's immediate choice I'd bet about 75-80% of jurors know within the first 5 minutes how they'll vote.

That may not be how the system is Supposed to work but as with anything on paper its perfect then once people arew involved it comes apart.

I'd like to point out I don't have much faith in juries...

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Two points, Morsul. Firstly, as Beth points out, these kind of things mostly don't get that far. Secondly, well, you seem to have a very odd idea of how a trial by jury works, anyway. I mean, you seem to think that what happens in court is basically irrelevant, and all that matters is what side the jurors "liked" best at the outset.

(And even on those terms, it's not as if Zaentz actually made the films...)

It would still seem fairly difficult to argue the Estate's case.

The gambling machines could go either way. The Tolkien Estate is trying to draw the line that gambling machines should not be allowed because it's merchandise that damages Tolkien and thus violates contractual agreements. Zaentz seems to believe since the copyright doesn't specifically exclude gambling machines and therefor it's fair game to continue slapping Tolkien characters and the LOTR brand on anything and everything.

I wish it was as simple as stopping the trash and junk the Zaentz co. licenses and pushes out to sell, but unfortunately passion and justice tends to give way to procedure and legal jargon. Both sides surely have a team of expensive and talented lawyers at their disposal.

I would guess the major decision is going to be over the gambling machines. But who can tell how that will turn out when the Estate wants to block the 'brand' from going onto the machines, and Zaentz is saying "well contractually it doesn't exclude gambling machines, therefor we should just be allowed to sell it." If there was already a separate agreement over permissable video games in '96, then I don't see what the TE could do about that part of the lawsuit.