Sauron's hair colour

[Aganzir]

Tilion deserves every burn he gets. Another thing I don't get on Tumblr: people swoon over characters like Maeglin because he's tall, dark and handsome - and, the little thing that's easy to overlook, whiny and clingy: "Idril y u no love me??!"

I've started compiling a list of every character's appearance, at least what's mentioned of them, because that way I won't have to dampen my inspiration by browsing through all the books first before starting to draw. (Yeah, one would probably be available online, but it's more fun this way.)

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Tilion deserves every burn he gets. Another thing I don't get on Tumblr: people swoon over characters like Maeglin because he's tall, dark and handsome - and, the little thing that's easy to overlook, whiny and clingy: "Idril y u no love me??!"

It's just as bad with some people's attitudes towards Fëanor. Yes, he was certainly 'hot' and the greatest artist around; but he was the worst monarch, and don't get me started on his behaviour towards Fingolfin! ('See, half brother! This is sharper than thy tongue. Try but once more to usurp my place and the love of my father, and maybe it will rid the Noldor of one who seeks to be the master of thralls'.) Wasn't the guilty one their father Finwë, who decided to remarry?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

It's just as bad with some people's attitudes towards Fëanor. Yes, he was certainly 'hot' and the greatest artist around; but he was the worst monarch, and don't get me started on his behaviour towards Fingolfin! ('See, half brother! This is sharper than thy tongue. Try but once more to usurp my place and the love of my father, and maybe it will rid the Noldor of one who seeks to be the master of thralls'.) Wasn't the guilty one their father Finwë, who decided to remarry?

But Feanor is so awesome! I don't think he's particularly hot, though. Fire-y, rather. But not "hot" in the sense of particularly good-looking. And yes, he was quite mad, but he is also the greatest of the Children of Iluvatar in the history of Arda. He's a madman, but he's got greatness.

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But Feanor is so awesome! I don't think he's particularly hot, though. Fire-y, rather. But not "hot" in the sense of particularly good-looking. And yes, he was quite mad, but he is also the greatest of the Children of Iluvatar in the history of Arda. He's a madman, but he's got greatness.

I have to correct you here, Galadriel. Fëanor was very good-looking, if Chapter 6 of The Silmarillion is anything to go by:

He was tall, and fair of face, and masterful, his eyes piercingly bright and his hair raven-dark; in the pursuit of all his purposes eager and steadfast....He became of all the Noldor, then or after, the most subtle in mind and the most skilled in hand. (My italics)

In Chapter 11 we read this:

For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him. (My italics)

While everyone agrees that Lúthien Tinúviel was the most beautiful of the Children of Ilúvatar, it looks as if Fëanor wasn't far behind; and he had the great addition to his good looks of being the cleverest and most artistic of all the Children.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

While everyone agrees that Lúthien Tinúviel was the most beautiful of the Children of Ilúvatar, it looks as if Fëanor wasn't far behind; and he had the great addition to his good looks of being the cleverest and most artistic of all the Children.

Well, I mean, all elves are beautiful, essentially, and Feanor not the least, but I always placed more emphasis on his "piercingly bright" eyes - a kind of brightness that overwhelms the more elegant Elvish beauty. That's why I am rarely satisfied with fan art of Feanor - most manage to capture the beauty, but nearly none capture that flame within him with the intensity that I perceive it to have.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

It's just as bad with some people's attitudes towards Fëanor.

This is probably not the right time to speak about it to me because I've been experiencing massive love towards Fëanor and his sons lately. Lovely arrogant idiots.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Are you sure about that?

Note the word average there.

Thinking about Tolkien's hair colours more generally, I'm happy the tradition of having blond heroes and dark villains isn't there (granted, everything that is a fantasy cliche became so way after Tolkien), especially if Sauron's fair means not dark. However there seem to be a lot of grey eyes - a lot more than I'm used to seeing in my daily life. Is it a (partly) British thing, or is Middle-earth special?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

However there seem to be a lot of grey eyes - a lot more than I'm used to seeing in my daily life. Is it a (partly) British thing, or is Middle-earth special?

I don't think it's a UK thing in particular, though lighter coloured eyes are more common in the North, possibly due to heritage, though grey eyes might be mistaken for blue quite often. And heritage can be misleading too, as the genetics of eye colour are quite complicated - my parents are both blue-eyed, each with a blue eyed and a brown eyed parent, and managed to produce one blue eyed and two green eyed children. I've also produced a green eyed child. Hair colour is much easier to trace genetically!

In general, paler eyes are more of a 'northern' thing though, as there's less melanin in the forward parts of the eye. Either Tolkien was trying to make his favoured Elves (and Rangers) seem 'northern' or he simply had a preference for that eye colour!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Thinking about Tolkien's hair colours more generally, I'm happy the tradition of having blond heroes and dark villains isn't there (granted, everything that is a fantasy cliche became so way after Tolkien), especially if Sauron's fair means not dark.

That's true. But then fair could also simply mean beautiful (but not necessarily blonde). It's so complicated with all the meanings of fair, even taken just as an adjective and not a noun or verb! I remember that somewhere else on the Downs, most likely on one of the translation threads, I mentioned that in my Russian translation Frodo calls Galadriel "wise, fearless, and just", and someone - I think it was Lommy but my memory is very hazy - said that in their translation Frodo says "wise, fearless, and beautiful". In English the last word is fair. Now how do you tell which is right? And for all we know both Sauron and Galadriel could have simply been blonde.

At least it's pretty clear that Sauron wasn't just in any fashion!

[Kuruharan]

I've always pictured Sauron as having his head shaved, especially in his evil form, so the answer to the question is "Sauron has no hair."

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Hey hey that's what you get if you search #silmarillion on Tumblr. It's not like I exactly wanted to see erotic pictures of Sauron and Morgoth drawn by average artists.

Are you sure about that?

Also, on Ainu sexuality, I think we can safely say that it's a possibility when incarnate, as is clear with Melian. As for when they're incorporeal, I'd assume it's something like in Paradise Lost.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But Feanor is so awesome! I don't think he's particularly hot, though. Fire-y, rather. But not "hot" in the sense of particularly good-looking.

I think you wasted a perfectly good pun there.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I think you wasted a perfectly good pun there.

A pun explored to some length where Arien and the Balrog are concerned.

[Saurondil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Tilion deserves every burn he gets. Another thing I don't get on Tumblr: people swoon over characters like Maeglin because he's tall, dark and handsome - and, the little thing that's easy to overlook, whiny and clingy: "Idril y u no love me??!"

I've started compiling a list of every character's appearance, at least what's mentioned of them, because that way I won't have to dampen my inspiration by browsing through all the books first before starting to draw. (Yeah, one would probably be available online, but it's more fun this way.)

## Maeglin needed to go into therapy - he must have been horribly traumatised by:

the disharmony between his parents

the death of his mother at the hands of his father

seeing the execution of his father by Turgon

being in Turgon's service

longing for Idril for a long, long time

being turned down by Idril (like Feanor by Galadriel)

seeing Tuor win Idril.

Maeglin is a rootless character - security & affection are both very important, and he didn't get them, but the opposite: his mother even used him as a pawn in her relations with his father. His entire paediatric development was mucked up. Little wonder he went to the bad. He's marked down as bad in a way Feanor is not: "...and indeed desire for Idril and hatred for Tuor led Maeglin the easier to his treachery, most infamous in all the histories of the Elder Days".

http://www.freebook4u.org/fantasticf...lon/15576.html

Which is all very well, but Feanor has to take a lot of the blame, surely ? Bad staff is romantic in a way that good stuff isn't - Ar-Pharazon is a humongously bad king, but he's a fascinating character. Evil is glamorous.

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Saurondil

## Maeglin needed to go into therapy - he must have been horribly traumatised by:


being turned down by Idril (like Feanor by Galadriel)

I'm afraid that's not the same. Fëanor was not interested in his niece Galadriel in the same way that Maeglin was interested in his cousin Idril. His niece's hair was a particular blend of silver and gold, said to be like the blending of the lights of the Two Trees. Not only did it give him the idea of making the Silmarils; Fëanor also asked her for some of her hair, which she refused.