Cryptic Clues - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Galadriel55 · 03-04-2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I can't think offhand of any palindromes besides Mim in Tolkien's universe

Bob. But I think that's it.

Anyways, great job Mith! That clue was certainly daunting, but you solved all the parts! Even with the help of dear old Lucy (who is just getting way too popular for a spambot

).

Mithalwen · 03-06-2013, 10:08 AM

I think there is truth I Gandalf's observation that shared origins are a help when it comes to solving riddles...more likely to get the cultural refs and knoww the same clue conventions.

But this isn't going to be so clever I fear.

Star doesn't get a thank you initially but gains land in dissarray for an epesse.

Pervinca Took · 03-06-2013, 03:58 PM

It looks darned clever to me! I tried to make my clues hard because the standard I found here was so high. (I was completely at sea on the Ossiriand and Amdran (is that right?) clues).

I also have a Daily Mail book of cryptic crosswords by my bed that I am gradually getting better at - but I still have to look up the answers in the back quite a lot!

I think there is truth I Gandalf's observation that shared origins are a help when it comes to solving riddles...more likely to get the cultural refs and knoww the same clue conventions.

I wonder if that was why I didn't get the "letters" thing in Galadriel's Ossiriand - or is that more to do with being used within a particular profession?

P.S. No, I can't solve this clue. Not yet, anyway.

P.P.S. Sam would probably throw apples at me for forgetting Bob.

Mithalwen · 03-06-2013, 05:24 PM

I only got it because I worked backwards...and actually that might be the best way of tackling this one.

Morsul the Dark · 03-19-2013, 01:04 PM

Personally I think this one is prettyn easy but we'll see..

I am born the earliest
Considered by many the most important
I can be sweet when desired

I am born Second
I am much the same as my elder brother
But I can be Salty if Desired

Third Born am I
I am twice the one
I Am not as well known

Fourth Born Am I
Many would use me to ease their labor
Yet two more brothers remain in this family.

I am Fifth Born
I am the smallest of my brothers
I'm known sometimes for my biscuits

I am Sixth Born
I bring the family together.
I am last until my oldest brother is born again.

Pervinca Took · 03-19-2013, 01:12 PM

So - is this six separate answers - or is each clue for one letter - or is each one a separate clue and we add them all together?

Unless it's Durin (who kept being "reborn") - but I don't know why a Durin would be sweet or salty!

Morsul the Dark · 03-19-2013, 01:35 PM

They're seperate answers that lead to the "family" which is a bigger answer.

Pervinca Took · 03-20-2013, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Personally I think this one is prettyn easy but we'll see..

I am born the earliest
Considered by many the most important
I can be sweet when desired

I am born Second
I am much the same as my elder brother
But I can be Salty if Desired

Third Born am I
I am twice the one
I Am not as well known

Fourth Born Am I
Many would use me to ease their labor
Yet two more brothers remain in this family.

I am Fifth Born
I am the smallest of my brothers
I'm known sometimes for my biscuits

I am Sixth Born
I bring the family together.
I am last until my oldest brother is born again.

I wondered if this might be the Gamgee family (Sam's generation), because Hamson contains "ham" which can be salty, and Marigold, May (which can mean hawthorn blossom) and Daisy are flower names (smell sweet) (even though marigolds don't have much perfume, and what there is is not that sweet). And because there was probably another Hamson born in a later generation.

There are six in this generation of the family, but the birth order does not fit the clues, and three of them are girls!

Back to the drawing board ....

Unless it's the lords of the Valar ...

Manwe (considered by many the most important), Ulmo (lord of the sea, hence salty), Aule (ease their labour? taught craft to the Noldor) ....

But even with Melkor cast out, there are one two many of them ....

Morsul the Dark · 03-20-2013, 08:20 PM

HUGE clue ham could be part of the answer... not Hamson just ham...

Oh and I'd also keep hobbits in mind...

Morsul the Dark · 03-06-2013, 05:48 PM

Star doesn't get a thank you initially but gains land in dissarray for an epesse.

Well Epesse is a nickname... sort of...

Now Gandalf has lots of those and is almost an anagram for Gains Land(gains land in disarray)

But he doesn't really fit the clue otherwise.

Mithalwen · 03-06-2013, 05:56 PM

Not Gandalf. But you are correct that epesse is the straight clue. Disarray is indicating an anagram but..

Pervinca Took · 03-07-2013, 01:10 PM

I think the "thank you" element is either "ta" or "Tar" (conversational word for "thank you"). That's as far as I got last night - this part of the clue was the one that at first had me the most bewildered! (and I may still be wrong, of course).

Also, I didn't know what an epesse was and had to look it up - so I learned something new as well! (Thanks Mith).

I reckoned it might be one of the Numerorean kings/queens with the "Tar" prefix left off. But I didn't have time to look through them all last night. (I guessed it was another "work backwards" clue - that like with minim/Mim you had to remove some letters to get to the answer, rather than add them).

I even tried removing "ta" from the word "star" - and mingling it with "land" or "land in" in disarray (jumbled up). And I nearly, but not quite, got Sirandilas - now, I don't know if that's even a Tolkienian name. I just remember someone once using it as a user name on a Tolkien discussion board.

Nerdanel has "land" in it, but also has several other letters that don't fit. Ditto Thranduil.

So I reckon it might be the name of a country, jumbled up, plus maybe s and r. Hmmmmm ....

I wasn't including "gains" in the anagram, because I thought it just indicated to add land or land in (jumbled up) to sr (star minus ta) ....

Or it could start with EL for star - but that still wouldn't take care of the "thank you" absence thing.

Mithalwen · 03-07-2013, 02:17 PM

Lots ofvthought but wrong conclusions other than you do add land jumbled up to the first part of the answer. Yes doesn't get means loses in this context but there is word in the clue you have ignored which is vital. Star is part of the clue not part of the answer so anagrams won't help there.

03-06-2013, 10:08 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I think there is truth I Gandalf's observation that shared origins are a help when it comes to solving riddles...more likely to get the cultural refs and knoww the same clue conventions. But this isn't going to be so clever I fear. Star doesn't get a thank you initially but gains land in dissarray for an epesse. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 03-06-2013 at 10:37 AM.

03-06-2013, 03:58 PM	#3
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	It looks darned clever to me! I tried to make my clues hard because the standard I found here was so high. (I was completely at sea on the Ossiriand and Amdran (is that right?) clues). I also have a Daily Mail book of cryptic crosswords by my bed that I am gradually getting better at - but I still have to look up the answers in the back quite a lot! I think there is truth I Gandalf's observation that shared origins are a help when it comes to solving riddles...more likely to get the cultural refs and knoww the same clue conventions. I wonder if that was why I didn't get the "letters" thing in Galadriel's Ossiriand - or is that more to do with being used within a particular profession? P.S. No, I can't solve this clue. Not yet, anyway. P.P.S. Sam would probably throw apples at me for forgetting Bob. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 03-07-2013 at 01:03 PM.

03-06-2013, 05:24 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I only got it because I worked backwards...and actually that might be the best way of tackling this one. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-19-2013, 01:04 PM	#5
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	Personally I think this one is prettyn easy but we'll see.. I am born the earliest Considered by many the most important I can be sweet when desired I am born Second I am much the same as my elder brother But I can be Salty if Desired Third Born am I I am twice the one I Am not as well known Fourth Born Am I Many would use me to ease their labor Yet two more brothers remain in this family. I am Fifth Born I am the smallest of my brothers I'm known sometimes for my biscuits I am Sixth Born I bring the family together. I am last until my oldest brother is born again. __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

03-19-2013, 01:12 PM	#6
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	So - is this six separate answers - or is each clue for one letter - or is each one a separate clue and we add them all together? Unless it's Durin (who kept being "reborn") - but I don't know why a Durin would be sweet or salty! __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 03-19-2013 at 01:19 PM.

03-19-2013, 01:35 PM	#7
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	They're seperate answers that lead to the "family" which is a bigger answer. __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

03-20-2013, 08:20 PM	#9
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	HUGE clue ham could be part of the answer... not Hamson just ham... Oh and I'd also keep hobbits in mind... __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

03-06-2013, 05:48 PM	#10
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	Star doesn't get a thank you initially but gains land in dissarray for an epesse. Well Epesse is a nickname... sort of... Now Gandalf has lots of those and is almost an anagram for Gains Land(gains land in disarray) But he doesn't really fit the clue otherwise. __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

03-06-2013, 05:56 PM	#11
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Not Gandalf. But you are correct that epesse is the straight clue. Disarray is indicating an anagram but.. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-07-2013, 01:10 PM	#12
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	I think the "thank you" element is either "ta" or "Tar" (conversational word for "thank you"). That's as far as I got last night - this part of the clue was the one that at first had me the most bewildered! (and I may still be wrong, of course). Also, I didn't know what an epesse was and had to look it up - so I learned something new as well! (Thanks Mith). I reckoned it might be one of the Numerorean kings/queens with the "Tar" prefix left off. But I didn't have time to look through them all last night. (I guessed it was another "work backwards" clue - that like with minim/Mim you had to remove some letters to get to the answer, rather than add them). I even tried removing "ta" from the word "star" - and mingling it with "land" or "land in" in disarray (jumbled up). And I nearly, but not quite, got Sirandilas - now, I don't know if that's even a Tolkienian name. I just remember someone once using it as a user name on a Tolkien discussion board. Nerdanel has "land" in it, but also has several other letters that don't fit. Ditto Thranduil. So I reckon it might be the name of a country, jumbled up, plus maybe s and r. Hmmmmm .... I wasn't including "gains" in the anagram, because I thought it just indicated to add land or land in (jumbled up) to sr (star minus ta) .... Or it could start with EL for star - but that still wouldn't take care of the "thank you" absence thing. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 03-07-2013 at 01:37 PM.

03-07-2013, 02:17 PM	#13
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Lots ofvthought but wrong conclusions other than you do add land jumbled up to the first part of the answer. Yes doesn't get means loses in this context but there is word in the clue you have ignored which is vital. Star is part of the clue not part of the answer so anagrams won't help there. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace