Hurt and Heal: Ladies' Round

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Psh... She's the wife of a character that doesn't even belong in the legendarium. She's very nice and all, but her primary accomplishment seems to be hanging about Tom's house cooking and singing.

She's a Disney princess.

Really? Reread the chapters in FotR where she appears. Tom is, I agree, a clumsy random crazy jumping madman, but Goldberry seems to control weather, water, when Frodo sees her, he starts speaking in verse without any preparation whatsoever. She also seems to speak reasonably when Tom blabbers nonsense. And degrading her to just "being a wife of..." is certainly not very nice, especially given that the husband in question is in fact a kidnapper, in her case.

Okay, maybe she belongs ahead of Ar-Zimraphel, whose major life-events were losing the scepter and drowning.

And being the victim of not very nice life-fate comparable to heroines of G.R.R. Martin's books and other ugly stuff.

Thuringwethil on the other hand flew about Tol In Gaurhoth and Angband, and presumably ate people.

First part only. "Ate people" is your own assumption, just as you say. And what is there about flying about T-I-G and Angband? Birds, Eagles, stuff, everything flew.

Or Aredhel, who was an adventurer/hunter/etc. that the king of Gondolin couldn't do squat to restrain when she felt like hanging out with her cousins. Not to mention she sacrificed herself for her kid, which gets her points.

Aredhel? Actually now that I think about it, why is she not out already? I think, if you say about Ar-Zimraphel that the only thing she managed to do was to lose the scepter and die, I think with Aredhel, it is kind of similar fate. Look also at that - forced to wed some abusive self-centered madman and then dies. But for some reason, I like Zimraphel more. Probably because she is human. And also has cooler name, but that's a detail.

And then there's Nerdanel, who set the record for creating kids (and awesome ones at that), and was a great sculptor, and actually captured Feanor's fiery heart for a time, and was the only person that could influence him.

Certainly. That one deserves the credit. But I still like some others more than her.

[Aganzir]

Heal Thuringwethil
Double hurt Elwing

Thuringwethil (8)
Goldberry (14)
Elwing (7)
Ar-Zimraphel (10)
Aredhel (9)
Nerdanel (7)
Vairë (11)

DEAD
Galadriel- phialed off by TP
Ungoliant- swatted by TP
Andreth- aged by TP
Ioreth- quieted by TP
Nienor- mercy-killed by TP
Nienna- left crying by TP
Yavanna- pruned by TP
Idril- offed by TP
Lobelia- umbrella-ed by TP
Shelob- stepped on by TP
Erendis- drowned by TP
Rosie- finished by TP
Vana- weeded out by TP

Also, a reminder that when the next one dies, double hurts are no longer allowed.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Also, a reminder that when the next one dies, double hurts are no longer allowed.

That's correct. Thanks for the reminder!

I completely agree with Legate about the different ladies, the main difference being that I'm not very much in the mood lately to be fascinated by Nerdanel at all (though once I could have rated her above Goldberry...).

While Goldberry and Tom are a bit of a sing-song couple, she seems to be such a radiant and joyful spirit of nature in that forest that even seven crazy sons don't match that. Just look at the effect on the hobbits when they are in her presence. Thuringwethil and Nerdanel are just "cool" in a very shallow sense. Vaire I like better because of her job of "recording history", and I'd place her not too far away from Goldberry, actually. Tar Miriel is ok because I just seem to like her (but I can't stand her other name *brrr*). Aredhel I've never really loved, but I suppose I'm sort of ok with her too. Same with Elwing. But Goldberry right now appeals much more to me because of that feeling radiating from her.

--Nerdanel, Thu
++Goldberry

Thuringwethil (7)
Goldberry (15)
Elwing (7)
Ar-Zimraphel (10)
Aredhel (9)
Nerdanel (6)
Vairë (11)

DEAD
Galadriel- phialed off by TP
Ungoliant- swatted by TP
Andreth- aged by TP
Ioreth- quieted by TP
Nienor- mercy-killed by TP
Nienna- left crying by TP
Yavanna- pruned by TP
Idril- offed by TP
Lobelia- umbrella-ed by TP
Shelob- stepped on by TP
Erendis- drowned by TP
Rosie- finished by TP
Vana- weeded out by TP

[the phantom]

Double Hurt Goldberry
Heal Nerdanel

Thuringwethil (7)
Goldberry (13)
Elwing (7)
Ar-Zimraphel (10)
Aredhel (9)
Nerdanel (7)
Vairë (11)

DEAD
Galadriel- phialed off by TP
Ungoliant- swatted by TP
Andreth- aged by TP
Ioreth- quieted by TP
Nienor- mercy-killed by TP
Nienna- left crying by TP
Yavanna- pruned by TP
Idril- offed by TP
Lobelia- umbrella-ed by TP
Shelob- stepped on by TP
Erendis- drowned by TP
Rosie- finished by TP
Vana- weeded out by TP

[Loslote]

++Ar-Zimraphel
--Goldberry
--Nerdanel

Thuringwethil (7)
Goldberry (12)
Elwing (7)
Ar-Zimraphel (11)
Aredhel (9)
Nerdanel (6)
Vairë (11)

DEAD
Galadriel- phialed off by TP
Ungoliant- swatted by TP
Andreth- aged by TP
Ioreth- quieted by TP
Nienor- mercy-killed by TP
Nienna- left crying by TP
Yavanna- pruned by TP
Idril- offed by TP
Lobelia- umbrella-ed by TP
Shelob- stepped on by TP
Erendis- drowned by TP
Rosie- finished by TP
Vana- weeded out by TP

Wow. I almost forgot this was going on.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Double hurt Thu
Heal Goldberry

Thuringwethil (5)
Goldberry (13)
Elwing (7)
Ar-Zimraphel (11)
Aredhel (9)
Nerdanel (6)
Vairë (11)

DEAD
Galadriel- phialed off by TP
Ungoliant- swatted by TP
Andreth- aged by TP
Ioreth- quieted by TP
Nienor- mercy-killed by TP
Nienna- left crying by TP
Yavanna- pruned by TP
Idril- offed by TP
Lobelia- umbrella-ed by TP
Shelob- stepped on by TP
Erendis- drowned by TP
Rosie- finished by TP
Vana- weeded out by TP

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And degrading her to just "being a wife of..." is certainly not very nice, especially given that the husband in question is in fact a kidnapper, in her case.

Compare:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I think, if you say about Ar-Zimraphel that the only thing she managed to do was to lose the scepter and die, I think with Aredhel, it is kind of similar fate. Look also at that - forced to wed some abusive self-centered madman and then dies.

Aredhel did what she wanted instead of what she was told, and she wouldn't be the first Tolkien character to get into trouble for that. You could even say she was the victim of a not very nice fate, comparable to the heroines of G.R.R. Martin's books...
Whether she fell for a mysterious dark stranger or was raped, she can't be blamed for it either way. And don't forget that before she died, she escaped her abusive husband (not an easy feat) and negotiated her way home - and then gave her life so her son could live. What's not cool about her?

I like Goldberry too (mainly for the reasons Legate and G55 mentioned), but I've been very tempted to hurt her at times because of her ridiculous number of points. And partly out of spite too if G55 has hurt Thuringwethil - this game can be really infuriating if somebody has altogether different opinions about everyone. Legate probably knows how I feel.

As for Nerdanel, she's about the only person ever, apart from Finwë, who had any control whatsoever over Fëanor. She must have been massively talented anyway, considering how much of her fëa she spent carrying seven children.

Another thing I find cool about Thuringwethil is that if we assume she's an actual person instead of just Lúthien in a bat costume she found on Tol-in-Gaurhoth (which I do), the fact that there's a winged messenger travelling between Morgoth and Sauron is awesome. And female, too. Apart from the spiders, she's the only named female villain. Think of how much terror she must have sown on her errands, even if all she did was fly!

Also, those of you who're constantly trying to hurt Thû - he's male, he's not in!

Heal Thuringwethil
Hurt Elwing and Ar-Zimraphel

Thuringwethil (6)
Goldberry (13)
Elwing (6)
Ar-Zimraphel (10)
Aredhel (9)
Nerdanel (6)
Vairë (11)

DEAD
Galadriel- phialed off by TP
Ungoliant- swatted by TP
Andreth- aged by TP
Ioreth- quieted by TP
Nienor- mercy-killed by TP
Nienna- left crying by TP
Yavanna- pruned by TP
Idril- offed by TP
Lobelia- umbrella-ed by TP
Shelob- stepped on by TP
Erendis- drowned by TP
Rosie- finished by TP
Vana- weeded out by TP