Origins of the Great Goblin

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Rumil

In one of the earlier texts there's reference to Boldogs, who appear to be sort of minor spirits and followers of Morgoth. IIRC they were interbred with orcs. Perhaps the Great Goblin was one in whom the Boldog ancestry 'ran true' to some extent?

I seem to remember something like this was suggested in Myths Transformed, or at least that's how I see the Great Goblin.

Also I can't remember if it was Rumil or somebody else that I repped and told that in Hungarian, boldog means happy, but in any case, you all need to know it because it's seriously the funniest thing ever.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I see no reason to think Morgoth would have been different. The Silmarillion says more than once that the Fire is with Ilúvatar, and that Fire (of creation) cannot thus be used by any other. If Morgoth were able to truly create his own incarnate creatures, would he not then be the equal of Eru?

This is either something I've cobbled together from a fairly canonical source (as in HoME, as opposed to Wikipedia) or something Lommy or some other Downer has said to me, but I've got this notion that Melkor could, in a way, bring things to life by giving up some of his own essence and weakening himself (which Ilúvatar didn't do). On the one hand I think orcs are mere beasts, on the other, I see them as some kind of Incarnates. I can't imagine them as having fëar given to them by Ilúvatar, though.

As for CaptainFaramir's original question, the idea is funny but what is maybe the biggest factor against it is the Great Goblin's age. He would have to be thousands of years old to be Salgant, and given the orcish lifestyle, I don't see he could have survived that long.