Is a Song of Ice and Fire better than Lord of the Rings?

[Firefoot]

So you can't take the stance in the beginning that "well, this is Ned Stark, the good guy I'm going to relate to, and who will prevail through all the hardships the author will throw on his way".

And I was okay with that for a while. But I think the red wedding was sort of the turning point for me, retrospectively. I just didn't really know who to root for anymore.

I mean, I love a good interesting villain. They're some of my favorite characters to write. But a lot of the characters left disgusted me in some way and even if they started to become sympathetic they never became likeable for me.

I completely understand why some people like it. It's just not for me. And I guess it's frustrating how popular it is and how so many Top X Fantasy book lists rank it so highly because I don't really see it. I tried, but I guess that's how it goes sometimes.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I completely understand why some people like it. It's just not for me. And I guess it's frustrating how popular it is and how so many Top X Fantasy book lists rank it so highly because I don't really see it. I tried, but I guess that's how it goes sometimes.

Right now it is a bit of a fad and benefiting from a lot of hype from pop culture. Once the series is finished, one way or the other, time will allow some perspective. As Nogrod said, I suspect in the final analysis Martin is going to end up something of a footnote whereas right now he is viewed as a literary titan.

[Dunadanman]

I agree with the "fad" comment. Much of what is published (book, movie or music) today is to appeal to a mass culture that also has a relatively short attention span. So arguably gratuitous inclusions in these works are present to stir quick interest rather than add to the foundational motive of the work. That's why the classics stand the test of time...they are rooted in the author's desire to tell a good story, make a point or promote a lesson. LotR is much more than a simple fantasy novel...behind the mythology, situations and characters lies a tale of redemption, of honor and the idea that good works in the hands of common folk can change history. That is what endures the test of time while all these other disposable attempts at entertainment fade from memory as the next ten come along behind. My idea of a similarly well done epic series (though a completely different genre) is Stephen King's Dark Tower novels. It's gripping in the same way as LotR because it promotes excellent storytelling and time-honored lessons behind the fantasy elements of the work. But take my opinion with a grain of salt, as I am one to favor Clint Eastwood's westerns over "Cowboys & Aliens" any day of the week!

[Rhod the Red]

Medieval times WERE dismal. And since we're talking
about a period after peacetime, in a Medieval war,
why would you expect much happiness as opposed
to cruelty, betrayal and suffering?

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

Personally, I started reading Game of Thrones, and the plot wasn't bad, but it was half adultery and half violence. So, no. I couldn't finish it because it was too heavy with the details, both sexually and gory. Oh, and the incest was DISGUSTING. Who the heck sleeps with his or her TWIN?

[Kuruharan]

After a little reflection on the subject, I would like to take back (sort of) a bit of what I said before about Martin ending up as a literary footnote.

I have now come to think the possibility for Martin to become a genuinely important literary figure from the perspective of history does still exist. I think it all revolves around how he handles the ending of ASOIAF. If he does a good job then I think his place could be cemented, if he does a poor job then it is Footnote City at best.

What I mean by this is Martin has made his name as a writer who subverts the supposed tropes of what has come before. I'm not entirely a fan of this but it is a valid way to go about things. He has already successfully done this in a number of ways and I think one of the existing primary character arcs is ultimately geared toward doing this as well on a fairly grand scale. If my idea is correct and Martin does it well, Martin could well be worthy of future study and remembrance.

However, A) I might be wrong in guessing his intentions and B) given Martin's seeming decline in writing skill he has every chance of botching the whole thing no matter how he tries to end the story, and it could very well be botched already because of Martin's underlying approach.

All that being said, Tolkien will still be better no matter how ASOIAF turns out.

[Kitanna]

I hate Game of Thrones. I mean hate. I almost threw people out of my apartment once I hate it that much (there's a very long story). I read the first book and thought it was ok until about halfway through. It just took a huge downward turn around the time Dany gets pregnant.

LOTR can be long winded and dry at times, but I at least feel a connection to some of the characters. I root for the Hobbits. I root for the men of the west.

I like LOTR because it shows the corruption of man, but also the redemption. Boromir falls to the power of the Ring, but his brother faces it and stands tall. It'd have been more boring if Faramir fell too, proving that men are wicked. Instead he shows a strength that was different from that of his brother. Gollum, though corrupted, still shows flashes of who he was. There is hope that he may yet come back from the brink.

When a character I love dies I get upset. I still tear up when I read Theoden's death. I cry when Sam and Frodo cling to each other on the steps of Mount Doom. I get none of these emotions from Martin's work.

If there's not one character I can relate to, that I want to succeed, then why would I waste my time reading the book? Ned Stark died. I didn't care. If a major player dies I should feel something. Anger, sadness, relief, anything. There is no alleviation from doom and gloom. No show of humanity. Everyone just kills everyone else.

The story of Fire and Ice is pretty interesting. I really did want to like it. I like history turned fantasy. I like darkness and shades of gray. Making main characters suffer is usually a pretty interesting read. But when the character suffering is completely detestable to me, well, I'm just not interested. The things that I liked about GoT did not outweigh the things I hated. Whereas the things I don't like about Tolkien don't overshadow the things I love. Almost everyone I know loves GoT and hates LOTR. I personally don't get it.