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#1 |
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Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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Well, Legolas was always a bit light in the elvish slippers, if you know what I mean. Put the Faery in Middle-earth, he did. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more, say no more!
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#2 | ||
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Woman of Secret Shadow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
I'd still like to emphasize more the fact that married people wouldn't have been as willing to go. Not just that they wouldn't have been sent, but that they wouldn't have taken up the task if there had been someone important waiting for them back home. I'm not sure how common orphaned or otherwise lonely protagonists were in fantasy-esque books before Tolkien's time, but in contemporary fantasy they definitely seem to flourish. Also, I agree with Legate that Tolkien's Catholicism might have played a part in it. The first thought I had when seeing this thread was that Catholic priests don't marry so that they could dedicate themselves entirely to their vocation, and it seems plausible that Tolkien had something of the sort in mind, even if not consciously. The Fellowship had to dedicate themselves first and foremost to saving Middle-earth. Furthermore, Tolkien showed the doubt the Fellowship went through - why didn't I turn back? why did I leave Lórien? why did I come in the first place? - and plot-wise, it would've been difficult to have somebody constantly pining for their spouse. Think how different Elrond's words would have been to anybody who was in love: Quote:
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He bit me, and I was not gentle. |
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#3 |
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Dead Serious
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With the exception of Frodo and Gandalf, who to my mind are rather clear celibates in the Catholic sense of being consecrated to something "higher," I wonder if the single nature of the rest of the Fellowship could be related to the distortion of proper nature that comes of a Sauron-run Middle-earth.
Obviously, this is most apparent with Aragorn: he cannot get married until Sauron is defeated and his thrones restored: Sauron is a clear and direct impediment to the good that would come of his marriage (which is directly manifested in the continuation of Lúthien's line among Men). But it's not just Aragorn: from the (brief) comments that Sam gives to Frodo about his feelings for Rosie, she was expecting him to propose--only he ran off with Frodo right about when she expected. In other words, the evil of Sauron intervenes and the effect is Sam feeling divided when he ought to feel whole (Frodo's words, more or less). Boromir too, insofar as Legate is probably right that he is married to his sword, is something of a typical Gondorian in this respect: remember the description of Minas Tirith when Pippin and Gandalf arrive: a mostly empty city, proud but with too few children. Note also that, as with Aragorn and Sam, when Sauron is removed, Gondor's fortunes change and there is new life--and more children (and thus more marriage) in Minas Tirith thereafter. Gimli and Legolas, I think, can each be seen as typical of their races, similar to Boromir being representative of the problem affecting all Gondor: the Dwarves multiply but slowly--a process impeded by constantly fighting goblins and finding new homes--and the Elves are fading. It is notable that they do NOT marry after the War of the Ring, because for the Elves and Dwarves victory is much more bittersweet than for Men and Hobbits: the enemy is defeated, but the Age of Man is begun. They will be happy for a time, but they will not be fruitful in Middle-earth. And that leaves Merry and Pippin, who are, truly, a bit young at the time of the War of the Ring, especially Pippin, but as far as that goes they could be said to stand in the place of the future generations who are affected by the outcome of the War of the Ring. Unlike Sam and Aragorn, they would not be married in 1419 one way or the other, but their chances of getting married in the 1420s is utterly dependent on whether or Sauron's empire stands. Mind you, none of this is to say that Tolkien used these characters solely for any representative function vis-a-vis their marital status. But he DOES use marriage as a direct correlation for a happy, fulfilled --normal-- life, and he uses it consistently with regards to the Fellowship (and others): Gandalf and Frodo do not get a happy, normal life after the War; Gandalf by nature and Frodo by result of what he went through. Aragorn, Sam, Arwen, Rosie, Merry, Pippin, (and Faramir and Eowyn) do. Gimli and Legolas do not--not because they are unhappy, but because their fates are much more bittersweet: they do not get the same kind of fulfillment (aka progeny) that the others do.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#4 |
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Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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Given the dearth of women among the Inklings, the scarcity of female academics during Tolkien's time, the proscriptions against female travel (the Grand Tour of Europe was gentlemen's perogative in the eighteenth century but not a ladies') and the absence of married couples in most epic adventure stories (although not in folk tales), is it any wonder there are no married couples? Domestic concerns were never really part of high literature unless it was the likes of the (adulterous) medieval romance tradition.
After all, would it be conceivable to interrupt the quest for childbirth? ![]() This is actually one reason why I enjoyed the Patrick Rothfuss book, The Name of the Wind: it has such well developed early episodes about a travelling troupe with families et al. Sure, they aren't on a quest adventure thingy, but the book does present a full social context before the hero is orphaned, like so many Victorian heroes and heroines (sheroes?) are. That Victorian literary tradition might also have an influence.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#5 |
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Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,527
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Most of my thoughts have already been mentioned, so instead of repeating I will just make a note about Sam. I think that the Quest really helped him marry, though not in the way it helped Aragorn. Rosie would have married him regardless, that is clear I think - how stoutly she believed in him when he left without a word, how she greeted him, etc. But Sam was too much of a boy still, and it would have taken him much more effort to make the step. The quest gave him more maturity. I'd say that he appreciates his Shire life with Rosie more due to the Quest, but that's more Merry and Pippin than him. He would have appreciated her even without all the adventuring. He's just that kind of person. But he still needed to mature.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#6 |
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Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 435
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I think that Sam's increased maturity is also revealed in another thing; what he does vis a vis Rose after he comes back. One might expect him to marry Rose almost as soon as he gets back (or at least as soon as the Shire is repaired). He has the standing now, he is much more financially secured (remember Bilbo gave him the small sack of gold in Rivendell specifically on the grounds it would come in handy when he married.)and he's certainly EARNED a little happiness. But he doesn't. Most likely this is because he has now grown so much he has come to the conclusion that he STILL has an obligation . He knows Frodo is suffering, and has decided its his job to look after him, even if that means he can NEVER marry or have any sort of life of his own. It's only when Frodo suggests sam move into Bag End with him, realizes the problem and comes up with the solution of Sam marrying Rosie and them BOTH coming to live in Bag end (basically allowing Sam to "have his cake and eat it too") that Sam finally does it.
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#7 |
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Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
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Don't have a lot to add to what others have said about the Fellowship, but it did get me wondering about the Dwarves of The Hobbit - mostly Gloin, being the only Dwarf we know of with a family (correct me if I'm wrong).
But when the Dwarves set out for Erebor Gimli had already been born in 2879, making him 62 at the time of TH, making him 15-20 years younger than Fili and Kili, who were considered young/barely old enough to come along. So Gloin at the least left an 'adolescent' son at home, possibly also a wife, though it's never acknowledged. Perhaps that says something about the difference in nature between the Dwarves' quest and the Fellowship's. |
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#8 | |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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