toms outlet - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aganzir · 06-20-2013, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

"Up came Tom with his big boots on
Said he to Troll, "Pray, what is yon?"

Was the Tom of Sam's troll-song actually Tom Bombadil? I'd never thought of that before.

Also, I'm sure at least one of the Cottons was called Tom. (Maybe short for Tolman; I don't recall exactly).

Where was the discussion about Tom Bombadil's influence on Sam? Was this mentioned there, or is it something I was going to post but never did?

Because when B-berry linked Sam's sudden bursts of poetry to Tom Bombadil, the choice of the name 'Tom' in the poem seems hardly coincidental.

Bêthberry · 06-20-2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Where was the discussion about Tom Bombadil's influence on Sam? Was this mentioned there, or is it something I was going to post but never did?

Because when B-berry linked Sam's sudden bursts of poetry to Tom Bombadil, the choice of the name 'Tom' in the poem seems hardly coincidental.

Well, there was my paper on "Tolkien and Nonsense" at RotR *coughs* where Tom's influence on Sam was discussed and I do believe I have mentioned it once or twice here on the Downs.

It is no accident that Tom is linked with folk nonsense verse. (And for that reason--the relation of Bombadil to early folk nonsense--I would reject Mithalwen's claim that Tom's poetry is "sub~vogon".)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inzil

You know, why should this be all about Bombadil? There's another Tom in Middle-earth!

Tom the Troll says: "What's a spambot anyways? And can yer cook 'em?"

By jove, you've got it!

Aganzir · 06-20-2013, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Well, there was my paper on "Tolkien and Nonsense" at RotR *coughs* where Tom's influence on Sam was discussed and I do believe I have mentioned it once or twice here on the Downs.

Oh yes! And more recently in some thread here, I believe - anyway I managed to connect it to you despite my rubbish memory.

Pervinca Took · 06-20-2013, 01:11 PM

Tom B wouldn't have a "nuncle," I suppose - "He would fall, last as he was first," I think Elrond says. And not in the sense that Lear's Fool uses the term, either, since he serves no-one. But in nonsense rhyme such things wouldn't matter.

Galadriel55 · 06-20-2013, 05:17 PM

You guys don't get anything! He's neither Tom B, Tom the troll, or Sam's Tom! He's actually Gollum. He just has a conflict of identities. One side of his character says, "i tom". The other side responds immediately, "i sell stuff". How can someone named Tom also be named Sell Stuff? Nay, this here is clearly a battle between the Gollum and the Smeagol!

Aiwendil · 06-20-2013, 05:27 PM

I note that according to the OED, 'tom' can be a verb meaning 'to practise prostitution' - which could perhaps also be euphemistically described as 'selling stuff'. Clearly, then, the post was intended as a kind of confession; 'carpinteyroxhc' (probably a pseudonym) usually keeps his/her occupation secret but needed an 'outlet'.

Edit: I never would have guessed my 2,000th post would be in a thread started by a spambot.

Mithalwen · 06-21-2013, 03:01 AM

Oh come on Behberry! Ombadil gives the impressiion he chooses his gaudy wardrobe to fit his ghastly rhymes.

There is another Tom. One of the fringe casualties of the war of the ring at Bree, Tom Pickthorn and not forgetting Tomfools whether Tooks or chief's men... or tom tap in Moria

06-20-2013, 01:11 PM	#4
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Tom B wouldn't have a "nuncle," I suppose - "He would fall, last as he was first," I think Elrond says. And not in the sense that Lear's Fool uses the term, either, since he serves no-one. But in nonsense rhyme such things wouldn't matter. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

06-20-2013, 05:17 PM	#5
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,492	You guys don't get anything! He's neither Tom B, Tom the troll, or Sam's Tom! He's actually Gollum. He just has a conflict of identities. One side of his character says, "i tom". The other side responds immediately, "i sell stuff". How can someone named Tom also be named Sell Stuff? Nay, this here is clearly a battle between the Gollum and the Smeagol! __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

06-20-2013, 05:27 PM	#6
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	I note that according to the OED, 'tom' can be a verb meaning 'to practise prostitution' - which could perhaps also be euphemistically described as 'selling stuff'. Clearly, then, the post was intended as a kind of confession; 'carpinteyroxhc' (probably a pseudonym) usually keeps his/her occupation secret but needed an 'outlet'. Edit: I never would have guessed my 2,000th post would be in a thread started by a spambot. Last edited by Aiwendil; 06-20-2013 at 05:32 PM.

06-21-2013, 03:01 AM	#7
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Oh come on Behberry! Ombadil gives the impressiion he chooses his gaudy wardrobe to fit his ghastly rhymes. There is another Tom. One of the fringe casualties of the war of the ring at Bree, Tom Pickthorn and not forgetting Tomfools whether Tooks or chief's men... or tom tap in Moria __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace