Saruman's Words to Gandalf and Galadriel - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 07-05-2013, 05:26 PM

Should we start the discussion with the obvious (and easy) answer?

Galadriel's and Gandalf's refusal to use the ring(s) means their downfall - well the vanishing of the elves and in some sense of all powers of old from the ME as it will now become the world of men devoid of magic or any other "powers of old" aka. the influence of the West.

And it looks more like a hindsight: You have doomed yourselves, and you know it. And it will afford me some comfort as I wander to think that you pulled down your own house when you destroyed mine. So it's not a threat or suggestion to any further deals but only stating the obvious with some bittterness, like "had you gone my way we - not men - could all be strong and thrive but now as I lose also you'll wither away".

One could argue whether it was "overthrowing" him Saruman claims was wrong or just his idea or POV they didn't take into consideration - well they wrestled with it both but came to an opposite comclusion Saruman did. But surely overthrowing the idea meant in the end also the end of Saruman. Which is quite pointedly exhibitioned in what cosequently happens in the Shire...

Anyway, Saruman was right as well. Of course.

Different readings?

07-05-2013, 05:26 PM	#2
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Should we start the discussion with the obvious (and easy) answer? Galadriel's and Gandalf's refusal to use the ring(s) means their downfall - well the vanishing of the elves and in some sense of all powers of old from the ME as it will now become the world of men devoid of magic or any other "powers of old" aka. the influence of the West. And it looks more like a hindsight: You have doomed yourselves, and you know it. And it will afford me some comfort as I wander to think that you pulled down your own house when you destroyed mine. So it's not a threat or suggestion to any further deals but only stating the obvious with some bittterness, like "had you gone my way we - not men - could all be strong and thrive but now as I lose also you'll wither away". One could argue whether it was "overthrowing" him Saruman claims was wrong or just his idea or POV they didn't take into consideration - well they wrestled with it both but came to an opposite comclusion Saruman did. But surely overthrowing the idea meant in the end also the end of Saruman. Which is quite pointedly exhibitioned in what cosequently happens in the Shire... Anyway, Saruman was right as well. Of course. Different readings? __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...