Sauron's name - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Andsigil · 12-29-2013, 06:59 PM

The Lord of the Rings wikia says that the name was in Tolkien's notes, but never in any of his published works.

I can't find a source stating that it was actually found in his notes. I would imagine that Christopher Tolkien would have included it somewhere in the later publishings. Oh, well.

Inziladun · 12-29-2013, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andsigil

I can't find a source stating that it was actually found in his notes. I would imagine that Christopher Tolkien would have included it somewhere in the later publishings. Oh, well.

If Tolkien did have it somewhere in notes, I still wouldn't put much stock in it. Other things in "notes" were to have Bilbo be the main character in LOTR, and for Legolas and Gimli to leave the Fellowship and head home after Boromir's death.

Zigûr · 12-29-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If Tolkien did have it somewhere in notes, I still wouldn't put much stock in it. Other things in "notes" were to have Bilbo be the main character in LOTR, and for Legolas and Gimli to leave the Fellowship and head home after Boromir's death.

Oh I don't know, if it's not contradicted by anything written later I'm willing to give it the time of day personally. I mean, it's not like trying to say Sauron was also Tevildo the Cat-Lord or something, is it? Or even that his name was Thû.

Inziladun · 12-29-2013, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Oh I don't know, if it's not contradicted by anything written later I'm willing to give it the time of day personally. I mean, it's not like trying to say Sauron was also Tevildo the Cat-Lord or something, is it? Or even that his name was Thû.

Thû for Sauron at least appears in published work as collected by Christopher Tolkien, and I'm unaware that the same could be said for Mairon.

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-30-2013, 12:57 AM

I'm not sure why JRRT notes in Parma should be considered of lesser canonical "rank" than similar notes published by CT, any more than we should disparage the Rateliff, Flieger, and Hammond/Scull publications of his papers.

I would place "Mairon", if I had to, alongside the elf-lord Argon.

Inziladun · 12-30-2013, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I'm not sure why JRRT notes in Parma should be considered of lesser canonical "rank" than similar notes published by CT, any more than we should disparage the Rateliff, Flieger, and Hammond/Scull publications of his papers.

I would place "Mairon", if I had to, alongside the elf-lord Argon.

I guess my main issue is the question of whether The Maia Soon To Be Known As Sauron would have been well-known enough to the Elves before his following of Melkor, to have been given a name meaning "the admirable". It's possible I suppose, since he was originally a follower of Aulë, and the Noldor were close to that Vala. So I guess the answer to the original question of this thread is "maybe".

gondowe · 12-30-2013, 09:22 AM

Included in the work "Words, phrases and passages", (PE17) a compilation for TLOTR greater than that published once in "A Tolkien Compass".
Under the root SAWA-, disgusting, foul, vile.... (for the name Sauron), the professor ends with the paragraph: " Sauron's original name was Mairon, but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon The Admirable, or Tar-mairon (King Excellent) until after the downfall of Numenor."
So in my opinion its absolutely canonical, and really defined as his "extraoficial" real name.

Greetings

12-29-2013, 06:59 PM	#1
Andsigil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin Posts: 733	The Lord of the Rings wikia says that the name was in Tolkien's notes, but never in any of his published works. I can't find a source stating that it was actually found in his notes. I would imagine that Christopher Tolkien would have included it somewhere in the later publishings. Oh, well. __________________ Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.

12-30-2013, 12:57 AM	#5
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	I'm not sure why JRRT notes in Parma should be considered of lesser canonical "rank" than similar notes published by CT, any more than we should disparage the Rateliff, Flieger, and Hammond/Scull publications of his papers. I would place "Mairon", if I had to, alongside the elf-lord Argon. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

12-30-2013, 09:22 AM	#7
gondowe Wight Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 248	Included in the work "Words, phrases and passages", (PE17) a compilation for TLOTR greater than that published once in "A Tolkien Compass". Under the root SAWA-, disgusting, foul, vile.... (for the name Sauron), the professor ends with the paragraph: " Sauron's original name was Mairon, but this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. But he continued to call himself Mairon The Admirable, or Tar-mairon (King Excellent) until after the downfall of Numenor." So in my opinion its absolutely canonical, and really defined as his "extraoficial" real name. Greetings