What fantasy book have you read that gave you the same 'feel' LotR?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

I It's funny you mention Turin, because your opinion of him is very different from the authors. Previously you had said that your viewpoint is dependent on what the author sets out as good. Here you think that Turin was a bad person. Tolkien on the other considers him as one of the greatest heroes of all time.

Elrond one of the wisest and greatest loremasters ranks him with all the great heroes.

"I will say that your choice is righ; and though all the mighty elf-friends of old, Hador, and Hurin, and Turin, and Beren himself were assembled together, your seat should be among them."

Your opinion of Turin is different from that of Tolkien's. My opinion of Turin also differs from yours. Though he has his flaws I ultimately consider him good and a hero.

Wait, what? That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying and ever said about Turin. He's my favourite tragic hero in the legendarium. Let's begin with his own life. No one can deny that he's done bad deeds and caused a ton of problems through his flawed character. Many people (NOTE: many people, NOT me) see this as a defining factor. I think that his deeds are at least partially justified from his perspective and his intention outweighs the failure. As for what Tolkien's premise of Turin in COH, he presents both sides of the argument, which makes everything so conflicting and complex. Yes, Turin is a great hero and person, but yes he is SO flawed and makes such bad choices, even those he could have avoided had he been a better person. History seems to have accepted him for what he tried to do and praised him for his great effort, forgiving him for his faults. That doesn't mean they weren't there -- as others would say. I say, yes, they were there, but they ARE outweighed once you know his thought process. Elrond's opinion isn't all of Turin that's presented to us.

I am not going to argue about ASOIAF because what's the point, we won't convince each other either way, so I'm willing to agree to disagree. But I'll defend Turin and my thoughts on him if even if it means taking it into a whole different argument.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Wait, what? That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying and ever said about Turin. He's my favourite tragic hero in the legendarium. Let's begin with his own life. No one can deny that he's done bad deeds and caused a ton of problems through his flawed character. Many people (NOTE: many people, NOT me) see this as a defining factor. I think that his deeds are at least partially justified from his perspective and his intention outweighs the failure. As for what Tolkien's premise of Turin in COH, he presents both sides of the argument, which makes everything so conflicting and complex. Yes, Turin is a great hero and person, but yes he is SO flawed and makes such bad choices, even those he could have avoided had he been a better person. History seems to have accepted him for what he tried to do and praised him for his great effort, forgiving him for his faults. That doesn't mean they weren't there -- as others would say. I say, yes, they were there, but they ARE outweighed once you know his thought process. Elrond's opinion isn't all of Turin that's presented to us.

I am not going to argue about ASOIAF because what's the point, we won't convince each other either way, so I'm willing to agree to disagree. But I'll defend Turin and my thoughts on him if even if it means taking it into a whole different argument.

I agree lets agree to disagree on ASOIAF

Turin is one of my favourite characters as well. We see him striving to do the right thing. Yes he does some very bad things, but he usually repents and tries to put them right. In my opinion when we look at the circumstances Turin did more good and accomplished more than most people and that is what makes him a hero.

Morgoth's hatred and desire to crush Turin allows Tuor to reach Gondolin. In the end he defeats "the power too great for you (Mablung and of course Turin too), too great indeed for all now that dwell in Middle-Earth."

However, in the end unlike Morwen he dies a broken man in despair.