Should she glow? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 01-01-2014, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Then again, as a lieutenant, or whatever Tauriel is, I assume she has some basic first-aid training. Not sure if that includes healing with athelas, though.

In the FOTR book, Aragorn says of athelas that it "grows now sparsely and only near places where [Men of the West] dwelt or camped of old; and it is not known in the North, except to some of those who wander in the Wild".
I doubt Tauriel, or any of the Mirkwood Elves, ever came in contact with athelas. Sounds like more PJ finagling to provide filmgoers who haven't read the books with more "continuity" linking the new films with LOTR.

Galadriel · 01-01-2014, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

In the FOTR book, Aragorn says of athelas that it "grows now sparsely and only near places where [Men of the West] dwelt or camped of old; and it is not known in the North, except to some of those who wander in the Wild".
I doubt Tauriel, or any of the Mirkwood Elves, ever came in contact with athelas. Sounds like more PJ finagling to provide filmgoers who haven't read the books with more "continuity" linking the new films with LOTR.

Thanks for the reference!

I think the "continuity" served to make the films rather trite, even if the effect was perhaps meant to offer familiarity. One of the main reasons I found TH such a weak film was the way it leaned so heavily on the LotR movies for support.

Morthoron · 01-01-2014, 10:50 AM

Of course Tauriel should glow. She is part of a planned Twilight crossover fan-fiction movie, where glowy elfesses and sparkly vampires battle for no other reason than because there will be enough cretins to waste money to watch it.

Galadriel55 · 01-01-2014, 09:42 PM

I have watched the movie today. Didn't mean to; we were going to see a different one but it was sold out, so we stayed for The Hobbit, and now I can properly comment on this.

I don't mind her glowing. Whether it is Kili's delirium, a manifestation of her healing, or a good measure of skin care products, it's not the thing that worries me. I definitely agree that the whole morgul wound business is quite a fake. Seriously? It's not the Nazgul that have the "death power", quote unquote, but any itsy bitsy filthy orc? Ya right. That was a pretty random shot at a pretty random dwarf, just the same as any other arrow, and not more special than their swords, axes, and etc. Conclusion: they are all armed with morgul weapons. Absolutely. Very logical. And the kingsfoil business - once again, seriously? Firstly, how do the Dwarves think of using it? And, erm, doesn't it kind of defeat it's name and purpose: KINGsfoil? It's supposed to be used by Aragorn, what are they doing, having a Dwarf think of it and a sylvan Elf use it? Trash.

Lalaith · 01-04-2014, 12:03 PM

I don't know about kingsfoil being exclusively used by the kings of men, despite the name. "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer" means that kings are good at healing, but it doesn't mean that only a king can heal. I'm sure that the use of kingsfoil originated with the elves, particularly given that it has a Quenyan name as well as a Sindarin one - asëa aranion. Back in the days of Beleriand, Huan and Luthien used athelas to heal Beren, after all.
But I agree that for Oin to have such in-depth knowledge of it is bizarre.

Galadriel55 · 01-04-2014, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I don't know about kingsfoil being exclusively used by the kings of men, despite the name. "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer" means that kings are good at healing, but it doesn't mean that only a king can heal. I'm sure that the use of kingsfoil originated with the elves, particularly given that it has a Quenyan name as well as a Sindarin one - asëa aranion. Back in the days of Beleriand, Huan and Luthien used athelas to heal Beren, after all.
But I agree that for Oin to have such in-depth knowledge of it is bizarre.

I don't mind it being used by Elves in general. I mind that it's known to Dwarves and that it enters the story in the wrong hands. It's Aragorn's to introduce, as forgotten lore. *goes to pout in the corner*

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-04-2014, 12:31 PM

And there's no reason at all for Tauriel, as a Nando, to glow at all; it's dubious that Arwen would, even to Frodo in his affected state. Neither one was an Elf of Aman.

mhagain · 02-09-2014, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I don't mind it being used by Elves in general. I mind that it's known to Dwarves and that it enters the story in the wrong hands. It's Aragorn's to introduce, as forgotten lore. *goes to pout in the corner*

Likewise. Well, that and the whole "Morgul Arrow" thing.

Tauriel's clearly a Tatyarin Avar anyway, so she shouldn't glow, but then neither should Arwen in the LotR movies - the whole glowing thing was just Glorfindel putting forth his power to begin with, but in the movies it seems a valid artistic license. On the other hand, the use of Athelas and the Morgul Arrow are just messing with the Lore for no good reason.

alatar · 01-04-2014, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I don't know about kingsfoil being exclusively used by the kings of men, despite the name. "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer" means that kings are good at healing, but it doesn't mean that only a king can heal. I'm sure that the use of kingsfoil originated with the elves, particularly given that it has a Quenyan name as well as a Sindarin one - asëa aranion. Back in the days of Beleriand, Huan and Luthien used athelas to heal Beren, after all.
But I agree that for Oin to have such in-depth knowledge of it is bizarre.

You're probably right. I was just connecting 'blood of Númenor' with athelas to cure Black Breath and other Morgul weapon-induced ills.

Many used it to clear the air or to cure headaches, and some think it pig fodder.

Inziladun · 01-04-2014, 09:01 PM

Kingsfoil probably would have gotten its name because it was used by the kings in healing, and they probably usually kept it on hand. The commoners would have had access to it as well, but any association with healing to those in Gondor (or Arnor) could naturally have also led to an association with the kings.

01-01-2014, 10:50 AM	#3
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	Of course Tauriel should glow. She is part of a planned Twilight crossover fan-fiction movie, where glowy elfesses and sparkly vampires battle for no other reason than because there will be enough cretins to waste money to watch it. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

01-01-2014, 09:42 PM	#4
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,512	I have watched the movie today. Didn't mean to; we were going to see a different one but it was sold out, so we stayed for The Hobbit, and now I can properly comment on this. I don't mind her glowing. Whether it is Kili's delirium, a manifestation of her healing, or a good measure of skin care products, it's not the thing that worries me. I definitely agree that the whole morgul wound business is quite a fake. Seriously? It's not the Nazgul that have the "death power", quote unquote, but any itsy bitsy filthy orc? Ya right. That was a pretty random shot at a pretty random dwarf, just the same as any other arrow, and not more special than their swords, axes, and etc. Conclusion: they are all armed with morgul weapons. Absolutely. Very logical. And the kingsfoil business - once again, seriously? Firstly, how do the Dwarves think of using it? And, erm, doesn't it kind of defeat it's name and purpose: KINGsfoil? It's supposed to be used by Aragorn, what are they doing, having a Dwarf think of it and a sylvan Elf use it? Trash. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

01-04-2014, 12:03 PM	#5
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	I don't know about kingsfoil being exclusively used by the kings of men, despite the name. "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer" means that kings are good at healing, but it doesn't mean that only a king can heal. I'm sure that the use of kingsfoil originated with the elves, particularly given that it has a Quenyan name as well as a Sindarin one - asëa aranion. Back in the days of Beleriand, Huan and Luthien used athelas to heal Beren, after all. But I agree that for Oin to have such in-depth knowledge of it is bizarre. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

01-04-2014, 12:31 PM	#7
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	And there's no reason at all for Tauriel, as a Nando, to glow at all; it's dubious that Arwen would, even to Frodo in his affected state. Neither one was an Elf of Aman. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

01-04-2014, 09:01 PM	#10
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	Kingsfoil probably would have gotten its name because it was used by the kings in healing, and they probably usually kept it on hand. The commoners would have had access to it as well, but any association with healing to those in Gondor (or Arnor) could naturally have also led to an association with the kings. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.