Boromir - An example of a man?

[Pervinca Took]

My gut feeling is that Eomer would not have fallen to the Ring. He doesn't ever seem to have the pride that Boromir does, and I think that was simply a part of Boromir's personality. Plus the fact that the need of strong warriors meant that he was very much prized in his day. His father's favouritism didn't help, either. All this does point to Boromir being the ordinary man, because his flaws are very human.

Eomer deferred to Aragorn from the beginning. "Elfstone, since the day you rose out of the northern mists I have loved you, and that love shall not fail." I don't really see unwarranted ambition or pride in Eomer. He wants Wormtongue out of the way, but to serve the King again. "Take this, dear lord. It was ever at your service." I think he would have deferred to Aragorn had he been on the quest in Boromir's place, too. Perhaps this is natural, because he is of a royal line, but of a much smaller kingdom. The kings of Rohan are like Old English kings - in some ways more like chieftains. The majesty of Gondor makes Boromir grow up with grander ideas, in a way, even though his father is only the Steward. Faramir tells Frodo how it rather bothered Boromir that his father was not king. Frodo says he always treated Aragorn with respect, but Faramir points out that they had not yet reached Minas Tirith or become rivals in her wars. And Eomer's respect and admiration for Aragorn seems to me much stronger. "Wingfoot I name you." He is clearly very moved by Aragorn's loyalty to his companions and his heroic pursuit of the orcs in an attempt to rescue them. Boromir would be moved by such things too, though ... but he didn't witness such an act ... yes, he saw Aragorn bravely protecting the hobbits throughout the quest, but he was protecting them too ... whereas it probably played a very large part in Eomer's love and respect for Aragorn.

I realise in typing this that my memories of Eomer are very much bound up with Antony Hyde's radio performance. Perhaps rather unfairly overlooked, because he can be a a little overlooked as a character, as his sister is seen as more exceptional?

Average but pure people are thr Hobbits.

I wonder how pure Lotho was in the beginning.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

My gut feeling is that Eomer would not have fallen to the Ring. He doesn't ever seem to have the pride that Boromir does, and I think that was simply a part of Boromir's personality. Plus the fact that the need of strong warriors meant that he was very much prized in his day. His father's favouritism didn't help, either. All this does point to Boromir being the ordinary man, because his flaws are very human.

Gandalf makes it clear to Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli that the Ring was especially hard for Boromir to resist because of his status as a military leader and a man-at-arms. It would seem the Ring presented him with an acute vision of it's being both the solution to Gondor's problems and a means for his own glorification.

You know, I think a better example of an "ordinary man" would be Barliman Butterbur. No high birth, no lofty ambitions, just a man with an inn.

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed! I was thinking of Beregond, as the ordinary soldier, but many an "ordinary" soldier is an extraordinary man, and Beregond is exceptionally brave in laying his life on the line to save Faramir.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Indeed! I was thinking of Beregond, as the ordinary soldier, but many an "ordinary" soldier is an extraordinary man, and Beregond is exceptionally brave in laying his life on the line to save Faramir.

Yes, I think Beregond, as a Guard, had something of an elite status in the military. He was a professional, not a farmer going to war in great need.

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Indeed! I was thinking of Beregond, as the ordinary soldier, but many an "ordinary" soldier is an extraordinary man, and Beregond is exceptionally brave in laying his life on the line to save Faramir.

The term 'ordinary' is a tricky one. In this case I believe it was used meaning 'average' meaning 'like most other men'

The lines are many, as there would be professional soldiers and conscripts in Gondor. Boromir, nor Denethor, would I classify as "ordinary men" They were extraordinary in their own right, different from each other, and from Faramir who Gandalf considered more like the men of the West.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Perhaps a good example of an "ordinary man" and how said would
react is Bard the Archer. In fact the whole political Esgaroth situation
is the closest to Democratic in Middle-earth (hobbits are more
minimalists-and unknown to them, really protected). Would Bard's
grandson Bard II have used the Ring? Very likely when the Lonely Mountain
was besieged, although perhaps temporarily advised against it by the nearby
ally elves. And no, I haven't seen PJ's latest assault on The Hobbit. The first
was enough.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

Would Bard's
grandson Bard II have used the Ring? Very likely when the Lonely Mountain
was besieged, although perhaps temporarily advised against it by the nearby
ally elves. And no, I haven't seen PJ's latest assault on The Hobbit. The first
was enough.

I think it's clear that anyone possessing the One Ring would be ultimately be unable to resist claiming and using it sooner or later. Those with great power (Gandalf) or ambition (Boromir) were just especially vulnerable. A Bard or Barliman Butterbur might hold out longer, but probably still wouldn't do as well as a Hobbit.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I think it's clear that anyone possessing the One Ring would be ultimately be unable to resist claiming and using it sooner or later.

This reminds me of the idea I argued in another thread that Boromir had, arguably, the learning of the High without the usually correlative wisdom, which was why he simultaneously was capable of desiring to effect grand schemes with the Ring and struggled to resist its temptations.
But of course anyone would indeed have succumbed eventually, although Boromir lacked humility as a substitute for or alternative to wisdom also. Yet the Ring was ultimately irresistible in the same way that it could not be conventionally destroyed. Everyone would have made the same choice as Frodo if they had been in his position at the Crack of Doom. Sauron himself could not have voluntarily destroyed the Ring.

[Bard the Bowman]

Bard the Archer. In fact the whole political Esgaroth situation
is the closest to Democratic in Middle-earth (hobbits are more
minimalists-and unknown to them, really protected). Would Bard's
grandson Bard II have used the Ring? Very likely when the Lonely Mountain
was besieged, although perhaps temporarily advised against it by the nearby
ally elves.

+1