Immortality and the sons of Elrond

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

In People of M-E it is said, ""the Hurinionath were not in the direct line of descent from Elendil, they were ultimately of royal origin, and had in any case kept their blood more pure than most other families in the later ages". [ch. 7] This does not imply that they were the purest noble house in Gondor, only that they were one of the few who were nearly so. The Lords of Dol Amroth were probably cousins of Elendil or at least were married into his family as early as before the destruction of Númenor. I'm of the opinion that the Stewards married into the royal house some time before the end of Gondor's kings.

This is from a draft and it does not make the appendix. We can speculate on the reason, but Tolkien did decide to leave it out.

The Numenoreans were never ones to have big families or even always got married at all. Then with the wars, the pestilence and others things many of the noble families would have ended. Minas Morgul had falled and Osgiliath was a ruin. Then there was the terrible kinslaying, which if anything like the War of the Roses (which it appears to be) then several lines would have been wiped out.

The Stewards seemed to have been chosen in part, because they had no claim; a neutral noble House if you will.

As I said before even at the time of Aragorn's return there were other Houses of greater nobility.

I can see the warring Princes of Gondor settling for a noble House, but one with no threat of ever being able to claim the throne.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

This is from a draft and it does not make the appendix.

Certainly it did not, but you yourself are not averse to quoting Tolkien's words that have not made it into say LotR or it's Appendixes. Is there a problem you have with the quote because it's not in the appendix? I'd find it hard to think this would be the case, especially with you or many another people when LotR is not the sole source made use of.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The Numenoreans were never ones to have big families or even always got married at all.

Correct. They would have children late too. In PoM-E, chapter 7 for example, it is said that Turin l "was wedded twice and had several children ( a thing already rare and remarkable among the nobles of Gondor); but only the last, a child born in his old age, was a son."

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Then with the wars, the pestilence and others things many of the noble families would have ended.

Yes. In the Kin-Strife itself, "much of the best blood in Gondor was shed" [Appendix A] There is also the infighting within the royal household itself leading to possible heirs abandoning their noble stations.

""the descendants of the kings had become few. Their numbers had been greatly diminished in the Kin-strife; whereas since that time the kings had become jealous and watchful OF THOSE NEAR KIN. Often those on whom SUSPICION FELL had fled to Umbar and there joined the rebels; while others had RENOUNCED THEIR LINEAGE and taken wives NOT of Númenorean blood."

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Then there was the terrible kinslaying, which if anything like the War of the Roses (which it appears to be) then several lines would have been wiped out.

Not only wiped out, but many renounced their lineage as well and began to take non-Dúnedain wives.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The Stewards seemed to have been chosen in part, because they had no claim; a neutral noble House if you will.

Indeed, nor others "whose claim all would allow".

Or do you mean chosen by the Kings to be Stewards?

Originally Posted by cellurdur

As I said before even at the time of Aragorn's return there were other Houses of greater nobility.

Not an argument.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

I can see the warring Princes of Gondor settling for a noble House, but one with no threat of ever being able to claim the throne.

I think it is clear there is no claimant because Eärnur, "left no children. No MALE descendant of CLEAR title (OR nearly PURE BLOOD) of Elendil could be discovered." [Heirs of Elendil, ch. 7] In Gondor kingship passed through the male line. So it did not matter if the Steward at that time was the son of the King's sister, he could not take the throne. Gondor's Council told King Arvedui, "The crown and royalty of Gondor belongs soley to the heirs of Meneldil... In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the SONS only" [Appendix A] In the end the crown was given to Eärnil, "the son of Siriondil, son of Calimmacil, son of Arciryas brother of Narmacil ll."

What is clear to me is that those who could be claimants were hardly pure like the children of Castamir for instance, "The sons of Kastamir and others of his kin, having fled from Gondor in 1447, set up a small kingdom in Umbar... they married women of Harad and had in three generations lost most of their Númenorean blood" [ch.7]. So since "no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would allow;" [Appendix A] there was no Kingship allotted. The Kin-strife was also at the backs of the minds of the Council.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

Certainly it did not, but you yourself are not averse to quoting Tolkien's words that have not made it into say LotR or it's Appendixes. Is there a problem you have with the quote because it's not in the appendix? I'd find it hard to think this would be the case, especially with you or many another people when LotR is not the sole source made use of.

Yes, because it is in a draft and he chose to leave it out. There is a difference between a note he left about a topic and a draft he discarded with what was published. Or else Strider would still be a Hobbit and the Sons of Elrond would have led the Eorl's charge. In the case of the Sons of Elrond riding to save Gondor, I don't accept it as much as I would love to.

Correct. They would have children late too. In PoM-E, chapter 7 for example, it is said that Turin l "was wedded twice and had several children ( a thing already rare and remarkable among the nobles of Gondor); but only the last, a child born in his old age, was a son."



Yes. In the Kin-Strife itself, "much of the best blood in Gondor was shed" [Appendix A] There is also the infighting within the royal household itself leading to possible heirs abandoning their noble stations.

""the descendants of the kings had become few. Their numbers had been greatly diminished in the Kin-strife; whereas since that time the kings had become jealous and watchful OF THOSE NEAR KIN. Often those on whom SUSPICION FELL had fled to Umbar and there joined the rebels; while others had RENOUNCED THEIR LINEAGE and taken wives NOT of Númenorean blood."

Not only wiped out, but many renounced their lineage as well and began to take non-Dúnedain wives.

Yes this supports the few families being left with Royal Blood.

Indeed, nor others "whose claim all would allow".

Or do you mean chosen by the Kings to be Stewards?

I mean both. The families with claims, that were not strong enough probably would not accept a rival to rule as Steward. Hence to stop future infighting you choose a family with a weak claim to rule.

Not an argument.

No it is. The families with strong claims to the throne would probably be some of the greatest nobles in the land. The Princes of Dol Amroth were the greatest nobles in Gondor, but there were others still about and greater than the House of Stewards. Considering the Stewards had ruled Gondor for a 1000 years, but STILL were not regarded as greater than these families is something.

I think it is clear there is no claimant because Eärnur, "left no children. No MALE descendant of CLEAR title (OR nearly PURE BLOOD) of Elendil could be discovered." [Heirs of Elendil, ch. 7] In Gondor kingship passed through the male line. So it did not matter if the Steward at that time was the son of the King's sister, he could not take the throne. Gondor's Council told King Arvedui, "The crown and royalty of Gondor belongs soley to the heirs of Meneldil... In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the SONS only" [Appendix A] In the end the crown was given to Eärnil, "the son of Siriondil, son of Calimmacil, son of Arciryas brother of Narmacil ll."

What is clear to me is that those who could be claimants were hardly pure like the children of Castamir for instance, "The sons of Kastamir and others of his kin, having fled from Gondor in 1447, set up a small kingdom in Umbar... they married women of Harad and had in three generations lost most of their Númenorean blood" [ch.7]. So since "no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would allow;" [Appendix A] there was no Kingship allotted. The Kin-strife was also at the backs of the minds of the Council.

This is part of the reason, but Arnor puts forward the claim the female line first. This implies that even in the female line, there was not many claimants.

It's in reply to this that Gondor makes the decision to choose Earnil a descendant through the male line over Arvedui's female line claim (amongst other claims).

It seems almost impossible that the Princes of Dol Amroth were not descendants of Anarion through a female line at this point. I question only if the House of Stewards were too.

I don't think they were, because
1. They were not one of the great families
2. Everyone agreed to let them rule as Stewards.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Yes, because it is in a draft and he chose to leave it out. There is a difference between a note he left about a topic and a draft he discarded with what was published.

True he did leave it out, but I do not think that his doing so necessarily means, at least in this case, that the Stewards were not related to Anárion. In Appendix A when we are given the rulers of the Dúnedain kingdoms in exile, the Stewards are clearly written with the Kings under Heirs of Anárion, as regards The Southern Line.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

I mean both. The families with claims, that were not strong enough probably would not accept a rival to rule as Steward.

Since when did the other nobles start choosing the Stewards who, "took office with the oath, 'to hold rod and rule in the name of the king, until he shall return.'" [App. A]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Hence to stop future infighting you choose a family with a weak claim to rule.

I'm not sure I get what you mean here. What kind of politics is this? Generally if a Prince wanted to secure himself from rivals he'd destroy the families of all would be rivals. It is known that Pelendur the Steward, for instance "played the chief part" [App. A] in the rejection of Arvedui's claim to the crown and the installment of Eärnil with whom the other Dúnedain approved.

They all had a weak claim to rule as Peneldur made clear when he rejected Arvedui's claim thus not only stopping his clan from claiming the kingship but the other clans who also had a royal lineage but not through the male line.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

No it is. The families with strong claims to the throne would probably be some of the greatest nobles in the land. The Princes of Dol Amroth were the greatest nobles in Gondor, but there were others still about and greater than the House of Stewards.

It is said, "no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would allow;" [App. A] and that the Stewards were nearly as pure as the kings. If there were purer houses, and houses of greater nobility, would they not take the station of king? They, like the Stewards, in my opinion were not related to the kings through the male line. Those who may have been descendants through the male line were not pure enough as they, "taken wives not of Númenorean blood." [App. A]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Considering the Stewards had ruled Gondor for a 1000 years, but STILL were not regarded as greater than these families is something.

This is because the kings installed them as such and they became hereditary.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

This is part of the reason, but Arnor puts forward the claim the female line first. This implies that even in the female line, there was not many claimants.

I do not think so. Let's be honest, there were not many claimants anyway, but again, Pelendur made sure that no one in the female line could take the crown when he rejected Arvedui's claim. His argument was not that there was no one to be found in the female line who could take the throne, it was that in keeping with tradition in Gondor, only in the male line were kings taken. There were certainly people of the male line, but as we no they could not be selected because they were too mixed with lesser men.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

It seems almost impossible that the Princes of Dol Amroth were not descendants of Anarion through a female line at this point. I question only if the House of Stewards were too.

I think it's possible both were, and possibly all of the noble houses remaining in Gondor with him intermarriage was almost certain to happen.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

I don't think they were, because
1. They were not one of the great families
2. Everyone agreed to let them rule as Stewards.

I do not get your 2 points here. Explain the 2nd one and also explain the first.

"Also to be Prince of Ithilien, the greatest noble after Dol Amroth in the revived Númenórean state of Gondor, soon to be of imperial power and prestige, was not a 'market-garden job' as you term it. Until much had been done by the restored King, the P. of Ithilien would be the resident march-warden of Gondor, in its main eastward outpost - and also would have many duties in rehabilitating the lost territory, and clearing it of outlaws and orc-remnants, not to speak of the dreadful vale of Minas Ithil (Morgul). I did not, naturally, go into details about the way in which Aragorn, as King of Gondor, would govern the realm. But it was clear that there was much fighting, and in the early years of A.'s reign expeditions against enemies in the East. The chief commanders, under the King, would be Faramir and Imrahil; and one of these would normally be a military commander at home in the King's absence. A Númenórean king was monarch, with the power of unquestioned decision in debate; but he governed the realm with the frame of ancient law, of which he was administrator (and interpreter) but not the maker. In all debatable matters of importance domestic, or external, however, even Denethor had a Council, and at least listened to what the Lords of the Fiefs and the Captains of the Forces had to say. Aragorn re-established the Great Council of Gondor, and in that Faramir, who remained by inheritance the Steward (or representative of the King during his absence abroad, or sickness, or between his death and the accession of his heir) would [be] the chief counsellor." [Letter 244, pp. 323-4]

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

True he did leave it out, but I do not think that his doing so necessarily means, at least in this case, that the Stewards were not related to Anárion. In Appendix A when we are given the rulers of the Dúnedain kingdoms in exile, the Stewards are clearly written with the Kings under Heirs of Anárion, as regards The Southern Line.

This probably has more to do with the Stewards acting with all the powers of the King rather than any ancestry.

Since when did the other nobles start choosing the Stewards who, "took office with the oath, 'to hold rod and rule in the name of the king, until he shall return.'" [App. A]

The nobles would have had to agree for the Stewards to keep ruling. The Civil Wars in both Arnor and Gondor are proof that the Numenoreans were not always prepared to follow the law.

I'm not sure I get what you mean here. What kind of politics is this? Generally if a Prince wanted to secure himself from rivals he'd destroy the families of all would be rivals. It is known that Pelendur the Steward, for instance "played the chief part" [App. A] in the rejection of Arvedui's claim to the crown and the installment of Eärnil with whom the other Dúnedain approved.

They all had a weak claim to rule as Peneldur made clear when he rejected Arvedui's claim thus not only stopping his clan from claiming the kingship but the other clans who also had a royal lineage but not through the male line.

I think you are confusing the timeline. Earnil's claim was certainly not weak. He was of the House of Anarion. The problem is that Arvedui had a stronger claim.

The political logic is that there are a few Houses with strong claims to the throne like the Prince of Dol Amroth and others. These Houses cannot agree on who should be king, so they agree to let the Steward continue ruling until the matter is resolved. A bit like the crisis Scotland had after the death of the Maid of Norway. They called upon Edward Longshanks to settle the matter.

It is said, "no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would allow;" [App. A] and that the Stewards were nearly as pure as the kings. If there were purer houses, and houses of greater nobility, would they not take the station of king? They, like the Stewards, in my opinion were not related to the kings through the male line. Those who may have been descendants through the male line were not pure enough as they, "taken wives not of Númenorean blood." [App. A]

The answer to that is NO. Just, because they were purer, more noble Houses with a better claim does not mean they would have been chosen for the throne. There was enough disagreement that none of the Great Houses like say Dol Amroth could get all the nobility to agree. Consequently it's easier to have a lesser House rule than have another kinslaying.

The reasoning being that the House of Stewards would never be powerful enough to claim the kingship. As things stand now we know that Dol Amroth at least would have seceded and possibly other areas too.

This is because the kings installed them as such and they became hereditary.

The king installed them us such, but it was never intended for them to rule for 1000 years with no king. Gondor Dol Amroth had become virtually independent at this time.

I imagine the other great Houses were content to keep the Stewards, because it was better than a Civil War.

I do not think so. Let's be honest, there were not many claimants anyway, but again, Pelendur made sure that no one in the female line could take the crown when he rejected Arvedui's claim. His argument was not that there was no one to be found in the female line who could take the throne, it was that in keeping with tradition in Gondor, only in the male line were kings taken. There were certainly people of the male line, but as we no they could not be selected because they were too mixed with lesser men.

I never said there were no other claimants, but there were few of them that met the criteria and after Earnur disappeared, there probably was none from the male line.

I think it's possible both were, and possibly all of the noble houses remaining in Gondor with him intermarriage was almost certain to happen.

Possible, but by no means a certainty. The Numenoreans would not have illegitimate children and had a very low birth rate. With the obsession some had about blood purity the royal family would possibly keep marrying back into each other. Numenor had a law forbidding the heir to the throne from marrying a non-descendant of Elros. Gondor may not have had a strict law, but I would imagine it would be the custom.

I do not get your 2 points here. Explain the 2nd one and also explain the first.

"Also to be Prince of Ithilien, the greatest noble after Dol Amroth in the revived Númenórean state of Gondor, soon to be of imperial power and prestige, was not a 'market-garden job' as you term it. Until much had been done by the restored King, the P. of Ithilien would be the resident march-warden of Gondor, in its main eastward outpost - and also would have many duties in rehabilitating the lost territory, and clearing it of outlaws and orc-remnants, not to speak of the dreadful vale of Minas Ithil (Morgul). I did not, naturally, go into details about the way in which Aragorn, as King of Gondor, would govern the realm. But it was clear that there was much fighting, and in the early years of A.'s reign expeditions against enemies in the East. The chief commanders, under the King, would be Faramir and Imrahil; and one of these would normally be a military commander at home in the King's absence. A Númenórean king was monarch, with the power of unquestioned decision in debate; but he governed the realm with the frame of ancient law, of which he was administrator (and interpreter) but not the maker. In all debatable matters of importance domestic, or external, however, even Denethor had a Council, and at least listened to what the Lords of the Fiefs and the Captains of the Forces had to say. Aragorn re-established the Great Council of Gondor, and in that Faramir, who remained by inheritance the Steward (or representative of the King during his absence abroad, or sickness, or between his death and the accession of his heir) would [be] the chief counsellor." [Letter 244, pp. 323-4]

1. The first point is simple. At the time the House of Hurin were raised to Stewards they were still not one of the Great Families. It's only after Aragorn returns that he raises them above all other nobility except the Prince of Dol Amroth. A House with close ties to Anarion would definitely be one of the Great Houses. Just look at the power the Lords of Andunie had.

2. When a group of powerful Houses are all competing for rule, they sometimes let a less powerful House/person rule as a compromise. Usually, because they don't feel the person will ever be a threat (this is part of the reason Hitler was able to come to power).

Say for Instance the Lord of Dol Amroth and the Lord of Calenardhon (fictional Lord) had the two strongest claims through the female line. Both are powerful and important families. The Prince of Dol Amroth does not agree on the Lord of Calenardhon and vice versa. To keep the peace they decide on letting the Steward keep ruling, safe in the knowledge that his claim and power base is too weak to take the throne.

This is a possible reason for why Denethor was bitter that in Gondor the House of Stewards could never take the throne even after a 1000 years.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

This probably has more to do with the Stewards acting with all the powers of the King rather than any ancestry.

I think it has to do with both, being both rulers and descendants, just as it holds with all the kings mentioned on the list.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The nobles would have had to agree for the Stewards to keep ruling. The Civil Wars in both Arnor and Gondor are proof that the Numenoreans were not always prepared to follow the law.

If this is your argument then in like manner clearly they would also have to agree among themselves to keep the Kings as Kings. Therefore I think this is a moot point you're making.

In any case, heredity principalities, such as that which the Kings and the Stewards are borne into, are easier to hold onto since the state is accustomed to the family of its rulers. Gondor's Civil War was due to a thing they were unaccustomed to, a King not marrying a Dúnedain woman. Even back in Númenor it started to become a practice among the Kings to marry women of the line of Elros, "to these provisions Tar-Aldarion added that the King's Heir should not wed save in the Line of Elros, and that any who did so should cease to be eligible for the Heirship." [UT; Aldarion and Erendis, p.218]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

I think you are confusing the timeline.

Howso? This happened between 1944-1945 of the 3rd Age.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Earnil's claim was certainly not weak. He was of the House of Anarion.

Certainly it was not weak. He was of course descended in the male line from Anarion.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The problem is that Arvedui had a stronger claim.

Not according to the South Kingdom who believed that the "The crown and royalty of Gondor belongs solely to the heirs of Meneldil, son of Anárion, to whom Isildur RELINQUISHED this realm. In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the sons only;" [RotK, Appendix A]

In Gondor they were of the belief that the Kings of Arnor, Isildur's heirs no longer had any claim to the throne of Gondor having relinquished the the realm. Arvedui argued that this was not so and that Isildur did not, "intend that the realm of Elendil should be divided forever."

This was echoed by Denethor many years later, "I am a Steward of the House of Anárion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Isildur. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity." [RotK, ch. 7, p. 142] Here Denethor makes it clear that even if Aragorn proved he was an heir of the kings, his line was of Isildur and not Anárion. As was stated before, ""The crown and royalty of Gondor belongs solely to the heirs of Meneldil, son of Anárion, to whom Isildur RELINQUISHED this realm." [RotK, Appendix A]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The political logic is that there are a few Houses with strong claims to the throne like the Prince of Dol Amroth and others.

I would say that there were NO Houses with any claim to the throne of Gondor because "In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the sons only;" and it is clear that those whose heritage could be reckoned through the son could not be King as they had "taken wives not of Númenorean blood." [App. A] Thus there was "no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would allow;". The rest, the Stewards and other Nobles, were at best only descendants through the female line which gave them no legitimacy.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

These Houses cannot agree on who should be king, so they agree to let the Steward continue ruling until the matter is resolved.

They let the Steward continue to rule imo because it was his duty to do so in the absence of any King. Sure they could oust him, just as they could, if they wanted, have ousted any king. If the Stewards were only raised by the nobles and in power by their design he'd have difficulty in maintaining himself because they think of themselves as their equals and the Stewards would not be able to manage them to their liking. Regardless, whether King or Steward, rulers of the Kingdom in both cases, "the Stewards exercised all the power of the kings" [Appendix A] the nobles would either bind themselves to their fortunes or not, giving more thought to themselves.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The answer to that is NO.

Agreed for reasons stated above.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Just, because they were purer, more noble Houses with a better claim does not mean they would have been chosen for the throne.

I say none of them had legitimate claims.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Consequently it's easier to have a lesser House rule than have another kinslaying.

They were just keeping with tradition in this as they did in trying to find an heir. There was none who were legitimate and the Stewards were the legitimate ones "to hold the rod and rule in the name of the king, until he shall return." [Rotk, Appendix A]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The reasoning being that the House of Stewards would never be powerful enough to claim the kingship.

None of the Houses could.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

As things stand now we know that Dol Amroth at least would have seceded and possibly other areas too.

Unlikely seeing as there were no legitimate heirs among any of the noble houses and it seems none were willing to break with tradition.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The king installed them us such, but it was never intended for them to rule for 1000 years with no king.

Certainly that was not the intention, for the Kings to die off, but they did give certain powers to the Stewards which were exercised in accordance with the situation they found themselves in.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

I never said there were no other claimants, but there were few of them that met the criteria and after Earnur disappeared, there probably was none from the male line.

I didn't say you did. They can't at the same time meet the criteria and also not be of the male line. Again, imo none of them had any real legitimate claim to the throne. I don't care if Dol Amroth for instance was thrice as noble as the Stewards they would still not be able to claim it if like you say, "after Earnur disappeared, there probably was none from the male line".

However, unlike you I'm a bit more certain that there actually were those from the male line, but they were mixed and not eligible due to their mingling with lesser women, "no male descendants of the royal line, among those whose blood was little mixed, could be found." [PoM-E, ch. 7]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Possible, but by no means a certainty. The Numenoreans would not have illegitimate children and had a very low birth rate. With the obsession some had about blood purity the royal family would possibly keep marrying back into each other. Numenor had a law forbidding the heir to the throne from marrying a non-descendant of Elros. Gondor may not have had a strict law, but I would imagine it would be the custom.

True, but also the Kings did have daughters and they could marry other not in line for the throne, their children would not be eligible in any case. I think they did marry other nobles in Gondor like the Stewards, etc.

You say "Gondor may not have had a strict law" but you mentioned earlier the Civil War. Do you not realize the Civil War occurred because this rule was broken? So I would say I think they took it seriously as it came to war when it was breached.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

A House with close ties to Anarion would definitely be one of the Great Houses. Just look at the power the Lords of Andunie had.

Good point.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

2. When a group of powerful Houses are all competing for rule, they sometimes let a less powerful House/person rule as a compromise. Usually, because they don't feel the person will ever be a threat (this is part of the reason Hitler was able to come to power).

I disagree that this was their line of thought.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Say for Instance the Lord of Dol Amroth and the Lord of Calenardhon (fictional Lord) had the two strongest claims through the female line.

This means nothing to me. The Prince of Dol Amroth's mother could have been the sister of Eärnur and I would still tell you such a claim was not legitimate according to Gondor.

"The crown and royalty of Gondor belongs solely to the heirs of Meneldil, son of Anárion, to whom Isildur RELINQUISHED this realm. In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the SONS ONLY;" [RotK, Appendix A]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Both are powerful and important families.

Still they would make baseless claims. Just 100 years earlier they had kept up the practice that "In Gondor this heritage is reckoned through the SONS ONLY;". I do not think that they would start trying to make the same argument as Arvedui which the lords of Gondor found baseless.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

The Prince of Dol Amroth does not agree on the Lord of Calenardhon and vice versa.

I think they would all agree that neither was worthy. Perhaps there would be some who would try to make this claim based on their descent through the female line and possibly take up Arvedui's argument about how in Númenor there were 3 Queens, but in the end none would make a case, "whose claim all would allow;" [App. A]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

To keep the peace they decide on letting the Steward keep ruling, safe in the knowledge that his claim and power base is too weak to take the throne.

I say the same holds for all of them, and that the Stewards were doing their duty in any case.

Originally Posted by cellurdur

This is a possible reason for why Denethor was bitter that in Gondor the House of Stewards could never take the throne even after a 1000 years.

None other in Gondor could either imo.