I Hate Feanor

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

Yes. In fact, there was less that divided evil and good in the distinction between the 'evil' in the way Morgoth was caste and as Feanor was, in personality. Feanor was extremely narcissistic. His motivational processes lacked a capacity to empathise and forgive. The commitment to covetous behaviour ('my Silmarils'--really 'my Precious') to justify kinslaying, deception, greed and his capacity to dismiss others' emotional experience in exchange for his own.

That's pretty seriously a problem.

Aye, but despite that, I wouldn't classify Feanor as evil. Why? Because of the intensity of everything that happened in and around him, and his fiery spirit, and his madness, and for god's sake because he's a tragic hero (or anti-hero, as Lotrelf nicely put). Because neither Jason or Medea are villains, or Paris or Menelaus or Odysseus. And neither is Feanor. Because good tragedies aren't written about Ingwes. Because in a tragedy, even though physically it may be someone's fault, but it's no one's fault and no one truly wanted it, and that's why it's a tragedy and not a moral fable of why it's bad to do so-and-so in such-and-such cases.

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

We think, for example, that Gothmog (the First Age one, not the one on the Pelennor) was a *child* of Morgoth and some troll thing. That's a *child* of a *god* and part of the order of existence.

Wait, what? He's Morgoth's son? When does that happen?


By the way, welcome to the Downs! I don't believe I've said this yet to you. Please don't be scared off by my rant on my beloved tragedies.

[Belegorn]

Fëanor was on a whole other level from any of his kindred and "was made mightiest in ALL PARTS of BODY and MIND... of ALL the CHILDREN of Ilúvatar." [Sil., ch. 11. p. 112] He was like a Super Saiyan, his like would never be seen again. I do not think Fëanor was all that much like Melkor except that they were extreme in their prowess compared to their peers, otherwise I'm not sure that Fëanor was jealous of the works of his peers, nor envied them their success. The only things he was jealous of it seemed was his father's love, and the Silmarils.

[IxnaY AintsaY]

But his cunning overreached his aim; his words touched too deep, and awoke a fire more fierce than he designed; and Fëanor looked upon Melkor with eyes that burned through his fair semblance and pierced the cloaks of his mind, perceiving there his fierce lust for the Silmarils. Then hate overcame Fëanor’s fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying: ‘Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!’ And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all the dwellers in Eä.

That alone is reason to be at least a little fond of Feanor, I think.

Hello, Barrow-Downs.

[Pervinca Took]

Well said, and welcome.

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Aye, but despite that, I wouldn't classify Feanor as evil. Why? Because of the intensity of everything that happened in and around him, and his fiery spirit, and his madness, and for god's sake because he's a tragic hero (or anti-hero, as Lotrelf nicely put). Because neither Jason or Medea are villains, or Paris or Menelaus or Odysseus. And neither is Feanor. Because good tragedies aren't written about Ingwes. Because in a tragedy, even though physically it may be someone's fault, but it's no one's fault and no one truly wanted it, and that's why it's a tragedy and not a moral fable of why it's bad to do so-and-so in such-and-such cases.

I hear ya. I have to add that without empathy for him, I can't live an honest life, because that would make me a finger-pointer about another's foibles without bearing in mind another truth. Beware how we judge others, for the stronger the judgement, the more that points to a flaw or fracture in the self. There's an old saying, 'me thinks he doth protest too much', the predecessor attribution about defensive thinking. In the modern world, we might say 'hyper-moralisers beware--you're telling us more about you than who you're judging'. Or 'let he who cast the first stone'. And all that.

I remember, for a very long time, turning on Frodo and seeing him as the failed hero because his forbearance lapsed at the 11th hour at the Sammath Naur. It's only 25 years later that I found compassion for him, realising some of the implications of the burden he bore, and realising I suspect I'd be much more like ole Boromir, ultimately, than our noble Aragorn. A hard realisation to accept--that I'm just an ordinary human like the rest of us 9 billion souls, excepting people like Nelson Mandella, and Ghandi.

Wait, what? He's Morgoth's son? When does that happen?

I sooo get you. Looks like Morgoth liked to gettiton with his bad people! God god - he must give a new definition to deviant behaviour - I don't even want to think about him and Ungoliant any more........-

Book of Lost Tales. As a son of Morgoth and the ogress Fluithuin or Ulbandi. Versus Silmarillion, where he is a Maia and head Balrog honcho.

By the way, welcome to the Downs! I don't believe I've said this yet to you. lease don't be scared off by my rant on my beloved tragedies.

Say thank you muchly. I haven't seen flaming here so far, though I've seen good, strong position taking with a good splash of fine eyes for great detail. I love it!