the elessar

[Galin]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

I don't think it is since both stories are internal. The legend of the Princes being descended from an Elf is something we hear about in LOTR. It is a legend that Imrahil addresses. This is not a case of Tolkien changing his mind for me, but rather adding another version ( a more accurate one) I believe.

Well that much is internal, yes, that there is a legend of mixed Elvish blood is surely so.

But that alone doesn't necessarily mean that two competing [and never published by Tolkien himself] versions of the history of Dol Amroth, despite that both can be connected in some way to this legend, are intended to be two, purposeful variations within the subcreated world.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Galin

Well that much is internal, yes, that there is a legend of mixed Elvish blood is surely so.

But that alone doesn't necessarily mean that two competing [and never published by Tolkien himself] versions of the history of Dol Amroth, despite that both can be connected in some way to this legend, are intended to be two, purposeful variations within the subcreated world.

Well Christopher Tolkien has seen all the notes and he seems to think they were conflicting 'traditions'. This to me suggest that he believes his father intended for both stories to be 'traditions' that were handed down in Dol Amroth.

3,000 years is a long time and lots of lore had been lost in Gondor.

I dunno. Arwen was Elros's niece and so has about 1/4 to 1/8th of his genome. And more elfy blood than Elros. I'd have thought those two factors, add in Aragorn's pure blood, then the Elessar might mean some restoration of longevity.

The Elessar, as I read it, also 'filters out' the taint of Morgoth in that influence upon the sun. I wonder what this meant for Gondorian citizens under its radiance. Galadriel used it as a lesser power to Nenya for the same reason. Add in that stuff about it being 'free of the One' and you have a pretty impressive Elf Stone...

Yet all the other Numenoreans had no elf blood and their lives were extended too. If we are to except the story of Imrazor and Mithrellas then the additional blood of Mithrellas really in the grand scheme of things did not change much either.

Without the gift of Numenor (a land freed from Morgoth's taint and blessed by the Valar) the Numenoreans would never reach that height again no matter how pure or loyal they were.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Well Christopher Tolkien has seen all the notes and he seems to think they were conflicting 'traditions'. This to me suggest that he believes his father intended for both stories to be 'traditions' that were handed down in Dol Amroth.

3,000 years is a long time and lots of lore had been lost in Gondor.

It is a long time, but it's up to JRR Tolkien to decide what has been lost, or might have become confused, within any given time period, within the subcreated world.

The use of quotation marks ['traditions'] by Christopher Tolkien is interesting here: does he mean he thinks they are internal, or that they are different traditions, full stop, even if they might be intended as in-story traditions? We've no way of knowing that at the moment...

... but in any case even Christopher Tolkien cannot be sure here.