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Old 04-08-2014, 07:27 AM   #1
Lotrelf
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Originally Posted by Faramir Jones View Post
But could you trust such an army? The problem is that we don't have any evidence of any orcs that aren't evil. For example, are there any good orcs, or at least some that want to live in peace, and won't bother other people as long as they themselves aren't bothered?
When Gollum being evil could serve good, though, not willingly. couldn't Saruman be the same? His "voice" is said to be cruel(?) and poisonous(use of words is not clear, hope you got my point. ). Not saying, Gandalf had to "trust" the Orcs, but they, with Saruman's help, could turn them against the Army of Sauron. Aragorn looked into Palantir and that was enough for Sauron's world to turn upside down. Perhaps, knowing they are going to destroy the Ring, Saruman would have betrayed them, sending his Orc-battalion to fetch the hobbits. For his own salvation, i.e. FREEDOM from evil, he might have come to good. If, according to Gandalf, Gollum had chances(very little)of redemption and survival, Saruman would have too. But, sadly his fate was not to turn good and understand goodness of Good side, and evil of evil side. He died like that. What a tragedy!
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Old 04-09-2014, 10:44 AM   #2
Faramir Jones
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Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
White-Hand An interesting fanfic

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Originally Posted by Lotrelf View Post
When Gollum being evil could serve good, though, not willingly. couldn't Saruman be the same? His "voice" is said to be cruel(?) and poisonous(use of words is not clear, hope you got my point. ). Not saying, Gandalf had to "trust" the Orcs, but they, with Saruman's help, could turn them against the Army of Sauron. Aragorn looked into Palantir and that was enough for Sauron's world to turn upside down. Perhaps, knowing they are going to destroy the Ring, Saruman would have betrayed them, sending his Orc-battalion to fetch the hobbits. For his own salvation, i.e. FREEDOM from evil, he might have come to good. If, according to Gandalf, Gollum had chances(very little)of redemption and survival, Saruman would have too. But, sadly his fate was not to turn good and understand goodness of Good side, and evil of evil side. He died like that. What a tragedy!
I've thought it sad that he died the way he did, with his throat cut by his own servant; but I then think of all the evil he did.

As I said before, even if he was sincere, I don't think that Théoden and Denethor would take any chances with him, considering what he had done.

There's actually a very interesting fanfic, called 'Saruman of Many Devices', a crossover of the LotR Peter Jackson films with the General series of books by David Drake, where Saruman has knowledge of future technology, imparted by an AI:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7568728...f-many-Devices

It's an interesting story because we have Saruman using this new (19th century standard) military technology to fight Sauron and his minions. Gandalf, as well as the elves, dwarves and men opposed to Sauron, are suspicious of Saruman's ultimate motives, but feel they have to co-operate with him for the time being. Also, the story gives us a lot of sympathetic orcs, urks, and wolves...
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Old 04-09-2014, 02:07 PM   #3
William Cloud Hicklin
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Actually I did mean setting out for Minas Tirith. Theoden could leave footmen as well as the old and young to guard the two fastnesses of Dunharrow and the Hornburg, but Edoras was left open; as Treebeard says (later), but for the Ents Eomer would have had no Golden Hall to return to.

Of course, there were apparently some 4000 Riders (less casualties, which would have been appreciable by then) who didn't make it to the Muster in time; these however would have been mere supplements to the garrisons
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