WW CVI: Tol-in-Westeros Game Thread

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Might it be we are getting the bear's lover?

I don't know about Sally, but I'm an ordo who just wanted some ale.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I don't know about Sally, but I'm an ordo who just wanted some ale.

We'll see that in ten minutes...

But if you're true, then, well... Sally's reaction beats me.

[Thinlómien]

Kitanna, whatever else you are, you are a troll. *anxiously waits for DL*


edit: xed with Gil and Nog

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Kitanna, whatever else you are, you are a troll. *anxiously waits for DL*

*shrug*
Now that I'm able to be on I may as well live my last moments up and proclaim my innocence even if it isn't believed.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

*shrug*
Now that I'm able to be on I may as well live my last moments up and proclaim my innocence even if it isn't believed.

I hope this is true, otherwise shame on you for guilt-tripping us.

[satansaloser2005]

My computer's being a brat, so this is likely all I'll say before Day's end (unless it starts behaving again).

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If Kit's a lion I'll flay myself...

Short version: Observe what I believe to be Prince Bearomir hinting at his role.


x'd since my last

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Short version: Observe what I believe to be Prince Bearomir hinting at his role.

House Bolton = flay our prisoners. Banner = the flayed man. Making a reference to say I didn't think she was a wolf, based on her Day 2 vote. That sort of vote and the reasons aren't one a Lion makes in those situations if she was attempting to help Mac.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Boro - really weird toDay, and his conviction of Kitanna's innocence in strange. Also he talks about yesterDay's voting like he knows Kitanna and Zil are innocent, which is slightly alarming.

Actually I never said anything about Zil's innocence. I'm still slightly suspicious for a possibility that their interaction Day 2 was all a lion-on-lion act. It at least set up nicely for stage lion-on-lion fight, and I noted the convenience that they wouldn't have to worry about the seer, so whoever came out unlynched wouldn't have to worry about being checked. I just find your actions and desire to get attention away from Mac and Inzil to be more suspicious. And this...

Originally Posted by Lommy

Okay, so either Boro and Kit are lovers, or Borowolf is going a bit too far in latching onto Kit who he knows is innocent. This does not fit with my theory that Wilwa dreamt of innocent!Boro though. But seriously, I don't understand at all why Boro has suddenly decided to become Kitanna's knight in shining armour, again when really hasn't been that much suspicion against her. (Notable also that he attacks me, the person who has probably suspected Kitanna the most.)

This just doesn't sound like normal innocent Lommy flip-flopping. I state Kit's vote doesn't make sense if she's a lion...and your mind goes to either...

1. We're lovers (false)
2. I'm a lion latching onto someone I know is innocent (false).

No consideration that I'm just exceptionally good at reading people's motivations and get a good feeling on whether a person's voting is innocent or not?

Originally Posted by Eomer

He's up to something. I know this is "throwing my vote away" apparently but I'll hopefully get to look into it next day.

Of course. If I'm giving a cryptic and creepy vibe then even better, because we all have a character to play and I try my best to play it. I'm actually not being paid to make Greenie's head hurt, but if anyone wants to pay me for that, I won't object.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

*shrug*
Now that I'm able to be on I may as well live my last moments up and proclaim my innocence even if it isn't believed.

I guess the Bear's lover could be counted technically as an innocent?

[Rikae]

So you aren't the ranger, Kit?

*whew*

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So you aren't the ranger, Kit?

*whew*

She's actually a werewolf pretending to be the ranger pretending to be the maiden pretending to be an ordo.



NOT A THING.

[Thinlómien]

*head exploding piece by piece which is not helped by the fact that I'm half watching Disney's Tarzan which has to be the most confusing cartoon ever*


edit: xed with Sally

[Thinlómien]

Sally whatever the case yuo're not going to die now.

edit: xed with Eomer

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Sally whatever the case yuo're not going to die now.

I....beg your pardon? o_O

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rules

lovers. Only win if both survive till the end (regardless of whether it's the Lions or the Inn who win the rest of the game). Can communicate at night. The Bear, being a Werebear, kills one person a night as long as the the Maiden is alive. If one dies, the remaining lover then chooses to help the side that did not kill their lover (that is, becomes effectively an ordo if they're night killed, or cobbler if they're lynched). NB: don't read too much into the choice of gender pronouns.

So.

[Nogrod]

Sally started cobblerism already...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Eomer

I want someone, or more than one person, to explain in just a few sentences why Kitanna was suddenly top suspect yesterday. That whole situation was strange to me. I recall someone (was it Nogrod?) claiming that her death would give us answers, or at least better info. I'm not sure why. Sure, Kit always has a slightly sneaky style of play, but what does that matter?

Just to quote a few:

Originally Posted by Cop

Kitanna:
In favour of voting her:
Ah. Her Day #2 Enca vote that could have been an attempt to set up an alternative to a Mac (or Inzil) lynch. If somebody was trying to save him, it was most likely to be her.
Possible "no lions" Lionish slip about G55's posts.
Mixed points: Mac puts her on his Day 1 suspicious list, but says it's flimsy - good cover for her?
He continues to hedge at #131 about her and others.
Kit makes lots of mixed statements about Mac's guilt and non-guilt.
At #179 Mac might be trying to suggest one of Kit, Boro and Rikae was dreamed innocent.

Originally Posted by Greenie

++ Kitanna
In brief: her slip, her emphasis on the lovers, her interactions with Mac, and to some extent her inconsistent voting yesterDay.

Originally Posted by me

Kitanna - my top suspect atm. Consider her slip, her concentrating on the bear and the maiden fair and her interactions with Mac, plus the fact that people (including Mac) have defended her even though there hasn't been that much suspicion against her.

You can't honestly say Kitanna didn't look suspicious yesterDay. If your confusion about the kills and your reaction to it didn't look so innocent, I'd be very inclined to point a finger at you and say "wolf playing the saint since didn't take part in an innocent lynch", but that I guess would be just knee-jerky suspicion. When I've misjudged something, I don't want it rubbed in my face by the likes of you, Eomer.

Boro's return makes more sense than his actions yesterDay. I feel better about him already, even though it seems we still disagree.

Originally Posted by Boro

I state Kit's vote doesn't make sense if she's a lion...and your mind goes to either...

1. We're lovers (false)
2. I'm a lion latching onto someone I know is innocent (false).

No consideration that I'm just exceptionally good at reading people's motivations and get a good feeling on whether a person's voting is innocent or not?

It wasn't that you stated that her vote doesn't make sense if she's a lion, it was the dramatic way you pulled a full-blown defense of her quite out of the blue that struck me as weird and not entirely innocent. Yes, as an innocent you can feel pretty confident that another player is innocent too. But my experience from past games tells me that the most flamboyant speeches proclaiming someone's innocence usually come from seers (which you're not) or from wolves overdoing their plan to call someone innocent (because wolves don't have any genuine second-guessing going on).

Originally Posted by Lottie

What do we think about taking a day to go bear hunting?

Are you serious?? I don't like the double kills either, but if a village started with as many players as we have now (12) there'd be 3 wolves and we only have 2 to find, so compared to that we're still pretty ok and at least I'm still kind of hoping/assuming the lovers are siding with us because mathematically it makes more sense. Lynching the bear doesn't bring us any closer to victory, but we could theoretically get rid of the wolves toMorrow if we get it right both Days. This suggestion is so fishy that I don't even know what to say. Pretty bold for a wolf, though.

Originally Posted by Eomer

I checked in early, and nothing much had happened. I then went to work on my RL assignment. Checking back later, suddenly Kit was the top suspect. I'm simply asking what happened, because reading back through the thread, the case against her came out of nowhere.

So, okay, apparently later Eomer gets down from his high horse. Eomer, the way I see it that a bunch of people (who maybe hadn't posted at all when you went away?) had their own reasons to suspect Kitanna or were convinced by other people's points. Don't forget Greenie analyzed Kitanna's posts, and Copper, Rikae and I analyzed Mac's interactions with people. Unless I misremember, all we who read through Kit and/or Mac's posting found Kitanna at least somewhat suspicious based on that.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I also agree with Eomer that with the Seer gone the Night kills are kind of open to any interprettions because there is no clear agenda anymore. They can kill anyone they wish.

As a general rule I'd presume they'd kill people who would be hard to lynch, but even there I think I have been disproven in this game (fex. killing Volo - whom they'd have quite an easy game to get lynched after his last minute vote).

So fex. killing Cop or Gil could be anyone's doing... they could even throw a dice.

Yes. They might wish to get rid of someone, even if that would be risky if they did that straightforwardly. But on the very same grounds they could bluff and "frame" someone as one the lions felt they had to do away with...

Plus they might want to target the ranger (or the bear?) and avoid the hunter. But in general I agree with Nogrod's points up there.

Originally Posted by Lottie

Cop's unusual suspicions make sense as a bear target if Cop was one of the only people the bear could kill, since Cop was one of the only people who didn't suspect them at all. This points to Enca for sure, and maybe also Boro - but Enca is more likely according to this argument.

Great, so now my brain is tempted to jump from the assumption "Boro was a wolf who knew Kit was innocent" to "Boro was a bear who knew Kit was innocent". That being said, I wonder if the bear and the maiden are laying false trails to other villagers to ensure their lover's survival if they die themselves. Not that we can do much with that piece of speculation (except I can maybe further justify my suspicion of Boro's defense of Kitanna, lol).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The lionkills in turn... well, they make no sense to me. Especially the Volo-kill is just plain odd.

Maybe they are just messing with our heads. Or getting gifted vibes from these people? Or bear vibes?

What on earth is going on with Sally. Also, since Eomer has been asking the same questions as you, the reasons why Kitanna was voted yesterDay have been and will be repeated.

Originally Posted by Sally

It is mathematically impossible for Kit's lynch to have been purely innocent-driven. Entirely. Mathematically. Impossible.

False. It is not mathematically impossible although I agree it's very improbable. (Really, what's with all this crappy math in this game?)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What kind of bothers me is your insistence that Kit was somehow self-evidently innocent and your willingness to jump on everyone who thought differently. I mean you do understand that only the lions knew that Kit was not one of them.

We know it now, but that's hindsight. We didn't know it then - and I do still stand behind my vote as having been the reasonable one then. It's not the first or the last time innocent people get it wrong even if they think they have fair points and have reasons to believe so.

Amen to that. I am still baffled by this flood of belated Kitanna defense (Kit, if you're reading this, you should feel loved ) not only from Boro and Sally but now from Eönwë too. With the risk of sounding entirely knee-jerk, I have to say it seems to me it's quite likely one of them is a wolf (or a lover??) taking the act too far. Actually possibly most likely Eönwë, the latecomer to the woe party. (And really, I don't want to diss you guys for being right. You were and are right. Kitanna was innocent - not that anyone's disputing it anymore anyway. But just please don't act like us others are the stupidest ever or totes manipulated by wolves, because that's not true. Kitanna looked very bad yesterDay, and there were four people who were analyzing her or her interactions with Mac and finding something fishy there. There's no way all those four were wolves who had decided to orchestrate a lynch because we only have two wolves left.)

As a side note, toDay seems to be the Day when people start getting emotional and frustrated (yours truly included), so let's just all take a deep breath and calm down. This is supposed to be a fun game. Everybody makes mistakes, everybody gets suspected, and the village doesn't always do what you think is right. Let's not let that ruin any of our fun.

I'm going now, and I will be back later, not sure when and for how much time, but I'll be here.

[Eönwë]

Well, it looks like I probably won't have time to look at Kit suspicion yesterDay, and to be honest, that's probably for the best. She just seems to have been scapegoated and pinned with all sorts of small suspicions, and that doesn't really tell us much. What I will say about it though is that Nog brought up the slip again (even though it had already been explained) in #364, Zil entertains it in #365, and Greenie chimes in at #370 Lommy practically mentions as fact in #377.