Fingolfin's Death - Suicide?

[Yregwyn]

Fingy was beside himself with rage and grief, he was so mad and heart broke that he wasn't thinking clear. Ive seen alot of people get so mad they do stuff that they normally wouldn't do. I have been in that situation myself. This is the case here he was so mad his "eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar". He was in such a rage that the only thing he could think about was hurting Morgoth anyway he could. I agree with Inziladun. Eomer was in a similar situation on the Pelennor, the thing that brought him out of it was seeing Aragon's standard with the fleet. He was already arraying his troops in a shield wall to fight to the last on foot when the black ships came. I dont think either of them wanted to die, but that wasn't a concern. The main thing that they both wanted was to hurt the enemy as much as possible.

[Inziladun]

I put Fingolfin's attack on Morgoth in the same vein as that of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor in ROTK.

There Éomer, seeing the apparent death of his uncle and sister,

....stood a moment as a man who is pierced in the midst of a cry by an arrow through the heart; and then his face went deathly white, and a cold fury rose in him, so that all speech failed him for a while. A fey mood took him.

There's the word fey, to accentuate the likeness. After that, he rides toward the enemy yelling "Death".

In both instances there is a moment of despair, followed by a white-hot rage to avenge, and though I don't think dying in the act was the preferred outcome, neither Fingolfin nor Éomer were concerned at all for their safety.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

I think the Silmarillion makes it more than clear that Fingolfin could see no way of defeating Morgoth from the position of the Noldor after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.

Wasn't it the Bragollach? But yes, that's the way I see it as well.

Originally Posted by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

In my view, his is a failure akin to Denethor's, in that he trusts only in his own strength and that of the Elves, and seeing that broken he gives in to despair and goes to seek his own death.

...Tolkien found much to admire in what is often called the 'northern heroic spirit': a philosophy of ultimate endurance in an undertaking beyond hope of success, relief or survival. Crucially this is a spirit that can only be diluted by the hope and faith that form such a key part of the Christian message, so that Tolkien is forced into a delicate balancing act between showing the certainty of defeat in the microcosm and demonstrating ultimate hope in his wider narrative.

Very good point that you bring up here about the balance. Now that I think of it, almost every single tale has a bit of both.

But here, judging at least from your first paragraph in the quote, do you think that the Christian part is really present to such etent in Fingolfin's challenge? Do you really think his lack of faith was a failure? I think that the northern spirit far outrules the Christian aspect in this scenario. I don't think Fingolfin's act or mood was failure, nor do I think that there is any hint of condemnation of them in the story that would make the reader think that way.

Originally Posted by Squatter

In any case, and returning to the point, I think that we are supposed to realise that Fingolfin cannot defeat Morgoth, but I also think that we are meant to admire him for preferring to face his enemy despite the near-certainty of failure rather than to hide and watch his cause gradually bleed to death.

This.



PS: I have edited the remainder of the text into my previous post, for anyone who wants to read the passage.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Wasn't it the Bragollach?

Yes it was, which does slightly undermine some of my arguments. D'oh!

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But here, judging at least from your first paragraph in the quote, do you think that the Christian part is really present to such extent in Fingolfin's challenge? Do you really think his lack of faith was a failure? I think that the northern spirit far outrules the Christian aspect in this scenario. I don't think Fingolfin's act or mood was failure, nor do I think that there is any hint of condemnation of them in the story that would make the reader think that way.

I was responding to the only criticism I could imagine being levelled against Fingolfin, which was that his leadership was badly needed, whether victory could be achieved or not. Yes, this is pure Viking heroism, and Tolkien's point is all about the damage done to Morgoth by this one Elf acting alone. The point about the tension between Catholic and pagan elements and parallel with Denethor occurred to me in the moment, but it nevertheless remains true that there is hope for the Eldar in their struggle against Morgoth: it lies in an unconsidered direction, enabling Tolkien to preserve the ultimate defeat of Morgoth while showing characters acting in the extremes of despair and hopelessness under his apparently permanent victory. I suppose it's possible that somebody thought he was foolish simply because he died, but that attitude says more about those who hold it than it does about Tolkien's characters.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Well, Legate, that's a valid point; but it's a bit hard to square with Tolkien's stern criticisms of both old-Beowulf and Beorhtnoth, for suicidal glory-seeking which resulted in disaster for those whom they had a duty to rule and protect.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'm not Legate, although we do look quite similar in this light.

Tolkien's criticism of both Byrhtnoth and Beowulf is that they succumbed to chivalry; ceding key advantages to the enemy out of pride and the desire for glory (Byrhtnoth in allowing his enemy free passage over the Blackwater, Beowulf by fighting the dragon single-handed when he had other men with him). He's at some pains in the Silmarillion version to point out that Fingolfin already deemed the strategic position to be hopeless and was acting in rage and grief. If the cause of the Noldor is already lost then the death of the king only speeds up the inevitable, and there is no advantage to be given away when the battle has already ended in defeat. This is not the only example of this sort of behaviour from a prince of the Noldor either: Finrod lays aside his kingship to fulfil an obligation to Beren's house and dies in the attempt without apparent criticism from the narrator. Unlike Beowulf and Beorhtnoth (and Earnur of Gondor, who is portrayed consistently as the dupe of Sauron), in these cases the characters have no position of security or strength to abandon and are therefore not able to make the same mistake as Beorhtnoth and Beowulf. The line is a fine one, but Tolkien draws it himself in his notes on ofermod.

The matter of Tolkien's opinion is further complicated by the separation of some thirty years between the first version of Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth and Tolkien's appraisal of the Anglo-Saxon heroes in The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth. A younger man wrote Fingolfin's last stand than the one who criticised Beorhtnoth's and Beowulf's stubborn pride, and it wouldn't be the only issue on which Tolkien changed his mind over the years.

In the case of Byrhtnoth of Essex at least, I think that Tolkien judges on too little evidence and presumes far too much factual accuracy in the Maldon fragment. I think that any criticism of Byrhtnoth's pride in that piece is a Christian writer trying to explain why God didn't help so valiant and pious a hero of the church against pagan savages, but that's beside the point. Tolkien read the Anglo-Saxon poet's accusation as a tactical criticism and agreed with it, but that doesn't mean that every example of one of his leader heroes apparently throwing everything away in a single gesture should be read in the same way.