Why Frodo is so misunderstood and underrated character? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lotrelf · 08-23-2014, 06:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Leaf

But this statement is undoubtedly true. To claim otherwise would be the opposide of "degrading".

I never claimed it was wrong. All I meant the help that Sam provided doesn't degrade the struggle that Frodo did. Most of the readers tend to ignore this. They in order to think or say "Frodo wouldn't have gotten that far without Sam" completly overlook the battle Frodo fought and Sam didn't. I don't think it's really appropriate to do so and ignore Frodo like this.

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This statement is true aswell.

Again, I didn't mean it to be wrong. But this one, too, doesn't prove Gollum ever struggled as much Frodo did. So, for Gollum and his efforts, ignoring Frodo is absolute wrong. The problem is, I think, most people go for the success. They hardly notice the struggle of an individual. This is how the world works. And as Brain Games says, we see things the way we are used to, so we do see things this way. What majority says or thinks is not often true.

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I don0…7t know if it is the "complete opposite". I would rather say that both might be true. Frodo feels responsible for the fate of the ring. Wishing not to depart from the ring is just the other side of the coin. I guess they both mark the end of a spectrum.

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But how does that prove Frodo's decision of taking the Ring to Mordor was not heroic or isn't worth the praise he gets from the characters? I did not get the impression of this until I saw others say so. I may be wrong in my thinking, but I am sure it wasn't of selfish motive as many suggest.

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Again, there is truth in this statement. However, I wouldn0…7t argue that his actions regarding Gollum are solely motivated by selfishness. He feels compassion towards Gollum. But in order to feel this kind of sympathy there has to be some kind of self-reference! So called selfishness doesn0…7t have to be a bad thing.

It's an impression many get from the movies, I think. In the book, at the end of FOTR, Frodo tells Sam he doesn't hope he'll see others again. This suggested he wasn't having any kind of hopes for himself to survive. If so, why would he think of beyond that? There's no doubt of the self-reference thing. He sees himself as Gollum and understands what Gollum has been through. This makes him pity Gollum, not out of selfish reasons but rather of understanding a "human" or human nature.

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As I said before, his failure is a sign of weakness, and pride aswell. But they are not personal flaws of his character per se, but structural, inherent character traits of all persons.

I wonder, if they are not his personal flaws, why he needs to be blamed in such manner. What of those who refused to fight with the Ring? Are they bigger failures than Frodo? No, because they fought. So why one has to doubt Frodo's devotion for his quest and his intentions. I can't see how the "pride" was the reason of his failure. Would you please elaborate?

Hm, I don't see the problem here. Frodo left ME because he felt a kind of unrest which could not be healed there. His wish to live a life without this pain might be inspired by self interest, but I wouldn't condemn him for this.

I forgot to mention something else: "He abandoned Sam to enjoy bliss in UL." This statement is completly wrong. IIRC, Professor Tolkien nowhere mentions "Frodo wanted healing", he says, "Frodo needed healing." Frodo went to UL not only because he wanted to, but also because if he didn't Sam would be "torn in two". The reason Frodo left can't be only for his own welfare but that of Sam's too. I hope I haven't confused you now. I tried to be as clear as possible.

Leaf · 08-23-2014, 06:53 AM

Well, the problem for me is that I never saw anyone making such claims until you brought them up in this thread. For all I know this could be strawman arguments. But I woulnd't really care if this is indeed the case either. Frodo's reputation among readers doesn't concern me at all. I just wanted to answer to some of your statements in a contentual fashion. I'm really not interested in a discussion about who is blaming Frodo or if Frodo deserves the blame.

FerniesApple · 08-23-2014, 08:15 AM

Perhaps some people critisize Frodo because they fundamentally dont understand the depth of his character, or they see him through the corrupting lens of 21st century values, ie heros MUST be big butch sword weilding aggressive types. They MUST be manly if they are male, they are expecting Frodo to 'man up' and kick some butt. He doesnt. He is gentle and vulnerable to the bitter end. He is an unlikely hero and some people just dont get it. Its their loss.

Leaf · 08-23-2014, 08:33 AM

You are confusing me, FerniesApple. According to your last post in the Movie area Book-Frodo is an aggressive guy who's fighting alot. Now it's the complete opposite?! Or are you talking about the movies, again? Besides I have never seen anyone complaining that Frodo should go full Conan. This is such an absurd claim...

FerniesApple · 08-23-2014, 11:14 AM

I think you are confusing me. I didnt say Frodo was an aggressive guy fighting a lot. I said he was more assertive than film Frodo. Book Frodo does fight more than in the film, for example on Weathertop.
Also you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I have never said people are saying he go 'full on Conan' you seem to have completely missed the point I am trying to make. try reading my post again.

Morthoron · 08-23-2014, 11:57 AM

Frodo is misunderstood because most folks lack reading comprehension....

including a certain director and his scriptwriters who have a penchant for overwrought fan-fiction.

Lotrelf · 08-23-2014, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Frodo is misunderstood because most folks lack reading comprehension....

including a certain director and his scriptwriters who have a penchant for overwrought fan-fiction.

What about those who claim to have read books for decades? I often see such folks on Facebook who completely fail to understand him. Many article/essay writers tend to have this problem as well.

Leaf · 08-23-2014, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerniesApple

I think you are confusing me. I didnt say Frodo was an aggressive guy fighting a lot. I said he was more assertive than film Frodo. Book Frodo does fight more than in the film, for example on Weathertop.
Also you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I have never said people are saying he go 'full on Conan' you seem to have completely missed the point I am trying to make. try reading my post again.

Well it would be helpful if i knew what you are talking about. Was your post about Film- or Book Frodo, or a mixture of both? Im just trying to figure out if you think readers of the book will go "meh, what's with that wuss Frodo? Why is he so unmanly? He should kick more ***!" Because that is what you are describing and I just don't see that happen.

FerniesApple · 08-23-2014, 02:20 PM

I am talking about film Frodo being negatively compared to book Frodo. Some people critisize the fact that film Frodo seems to be less assertive. They critisize Woods performance as being 'wimpy'.
I have not personally heard of anyone critisizing book Frodo. Most people I have spoken to about LOTR seem to think Frodo in the book is courageous. They normally bring up moments like his challenging the Ringwraiths at the Ford.

08-23-2014, 11:14 AM	#5
FerniesApple Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 92	I think you are confusing me. I didnt say Frodo was an aggressive guy fighting a lot. I said he was more assertive than film Frodo. Book Frodo does fight more than in the film, for example on Weathertop. Also you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I have never said people are saying he go 'full on Conan' you seem to have completely missed the point I am trying to make. try reading my post again. Last edited by FerniesApple; 08-23-2014 at 11:18 AM.

08-23-2014, 11:57 AM	#6
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	Frodo is misunderstood because most folks lack reading comprehension.... including a certain director and his scriptwriters who have a penchant for overwrought fan-fiction. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

08-23-2014, 06:53 AM	#2
Leaf Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	Well, the problem for me is that I never saw anyone making such claims until you brought them up in this thread. For all I know this could be strawman arguments. But I woulnd't really care if this is indeed the case either. Frodo's reputation among readers doesn't concern me at all. I just wanted to answer to some of your statements in a contentual fashion. I'm really not interested in a discussion about who is blaming Frodo or if Frodo deserves the blame.

08-23-2014, 08:15 AM	#3
FerniesApple Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 92	Perhaps some people critisize Frodo because they fundamentally dont understand the depth of his character, or they see him through the corrupting lens of 21st century values, ie heros MUST be big butch sword weilding aggressive types. They MUST be manly if they are male, they are expecting Frodo to 'man up' and kick some butt. He doesnt. He is gentle and vulnerable to the bitter end. He is an unlikely hero and some people just dont get it. Its their loss.

08-23-2014, 08:33 AM	#4
Leaf Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	You are confusing me, FerniesApple. According to your last post in the Movie area Book-Frodo is an aggressive guy who's fighting alot. Now it's the complete opposite?! Or are you talking about the movies, again? Besides I have never seen anyone complaining that Frodo should go full Conan. This is such an absurd claim...

08-23-2014, 02:20 PM	#9
FerniesApple Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 92	I am talking about film Frodo being negatively compared to book Frodo. Some people critisize the fact that film Frodo seems to be less assertive. They critisize Woods performance as being 'wimpy'. I have not personally heard of anyone critisizing book Frodo. Most people I have spoken to about LOTR seem to think Frodo in the book is courageous. They normally bring up moments like his challenging the Ringwraiths at the Ford.