Vaguely interesting BBC Culture article

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

I wouldn't necessarily say that Tolkien's writing was a rejection of twentieth century literature, but moreso an innovation, or re-innovation, bringing a traditional legendarium style mythos back into view.

Hence why I said "to a degree" as well as "the literary establishment" and "literary orthodoxy" rather than "twentieth century literature full stop." It's the dismissal or at least scepticism of the institutions, the trends and the fashions of early-to-mid twentieth century literature which I think produces the vague correlation with the hippie's rejection of conventional society, but it's definitely a tenuous correlation at that.

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

This is not a valid reason to state that it supported the hippie movement.

I hope you don't think I was trying to argue that it did, because it certainly wasn't my intention at any point to argue that Professor Tolkien's arguments supported the movement, just to try to elaborate or possibly develop what I think the author was struggling to say, without agreeing or disagreeing with them. Just so you know, I'm not trying to say the article was right, just try to see where it was coming from and what more substantial remarks it might have made.

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

This vagueness allows us to conclude that the writer has begun to understand what they were talking about, but thought we would just accept their interpretation as hard fact, ignoring opposing cases.

In all honesty I'm not sure what the author was trying to do apart from tease out a tangential reason for BBC culture to ride the comet trail of the new Hobbit film.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Given that Tolkien explicitly loathed hippies, free love, drugs, Marxism and rock music.... In fact the man was pretty reactionary even by the standards of his Edwardian generation. An unrepentant monarchist and hyper-Catholic, to the extent he was a contrarian and rejectionist, it was for opposite reasons from the hippies. Even his anti-industrial agrarianism was a nostalgia for "a well-tilled countryside" not "back to the Pleistocene."

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I hope you don't think I was trying to argue that it did, because it certainly wasn't my intention at any point to argue that Professor Tolkien's arguments supported the movement, just to try to elaborate or possibly develop what I think the author was struggling to say, without agreeing or disagreeing with them. Just so you know, I'm not trying to say the article was right, just try to see where it was coming from and what more substantial remarks it might have made.

Unfortunately, tone of voice cannot be heard through text, and so the way in which my statement could be read depends on how you initially interpret it. It was an agreement that the writer was trying to force their logic, and a criticism of the writer, rather than yourself.

Originally Posted by Zigûr

In all honesty I'm not sure what the author was trying to do apart from tease out a tangential reason for BBC culture to ride the comet trail of the new Hobbit film.

It does seem that the writer was more focused on getting controversial views, rather than legitimate readers, and ride the Hobbit hype train to get publicity, which they have surely done. While they were trying to force logic, you are right in suggesting they just wanted to leech the Hobbit movies hype.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

An unrepentant monarchist and hyper-Catholic

He does say that politically he leaned towards monarchy or anarchy, though, in Letter 52. Of course his version of anarchy is not the same as either the "whiskered men with bombs" he mocks in the same letter or its modern manifestations, but I think it's a point which is to a degree borne out in The Lord of the Rings and so it's another way I can understand why it appealed, however inaccurately, to the counter-culture movement.

Also what separates a "hyper-Catholic" from your common or garden variety Catholic? I suppose his resistance to the decisions of Vatican II for instance.

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Even his anti-industrial agrarianism was a nostalgia for "a well-tilled countryside" not "back to the Pleistocene."

Nostalgia is an important point, because there's so much anti-nostalgia too. The Gwaith-i-Mírdain for instance are criticised (I would argue) for being "overburdened with sadness and nostalgic regret." (Letter 154) He associates this with the Dúnedain's obsession with death and prolonging their lives. Denethor too was afflicted by a fatal nostalgia for the heyday of his stewardship. Personally I think Professor Tolkien's opinions were quite complex, which is something that interests me about him. He doesn't strike me as an ideological person who would adhere to an arbitrary set of other people's rules about a whole system of ideas but rather a man who made up his own mind on individual issues without fear that he was contradicting a (worldly) authority.