Christianity

[Knight of Gondor]

Good topic, Fosco. I’ve often wondered if there would be a way to start a topic merely asking which others of the board shared my faith, but this is a good way while discussing an issue, too! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

You ask what attracts us to the story. I’d say that it is similar to Lewis’s Chronicles of Narnia. Both Tolkien and Lewis had faith in Jesus Christ, and both allowed that faith to be displayed through their books.

You might say that the story disagrees with the story of Christ’s birth, death, and resurrection, perhaps. After all, the Bible provides a somewhat clear history up unto the birth of Christ. But, it is supposed to be fiction. I believe I read that Tolkien was rather sad at the lack of the rich cultural mythology that many other nations held, and, even if it was fiction, decided to compose some of his own.

I think christians are attracted to it because it is 'similar' to their religion - LotR has one, all-powerful and all-good God.

You might say that, but it goes further. The author himself is a Christian, and his faith, like it or not, shines through in many places.

Also Gandalf has been interpreted as a 'christ' figure by some people.

That’s quite true. But while Lewis’s Aslan totally encompasses and is the role of Christ, Tolkien “split” it to so speak. Being that he did not wish to have complete allegory (i.e. the Ring equals a nuclear bomb...it doesn’t equal it, but it is similar to it), he inserted things as “applicable” and “parallel” to not only political ideas (internal combustion engine is Saruman’s baby) but Christian as well. While Gandalf does not equal Christ, by sacrificing himself to save the rest, resurrecting, and being a wizard of great power to aid the Quest, he occupies one position of Christ. One person in a Lord of the Rings Sunday school class (turn green with envy, you guys! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) I attended put it that Gandalf occupies the position of Prophet, one of the three offices of Christ. Frodo, bearing the sin away from the “camp” as it were, is similar to the Priest, who made atonement for the sins of Israel. And anyone can guess who occupies the King position. By living a life that seemed too plain and obscure, by taking hold of his destiny, by treading the paths where only the dead trod, and by setting them free, victorious over the Dark Lord in the end, and restoring the White City to order, Aragorn more than qualifies for that position.

Plus Tolkein was a Christian and LotR espouses many 'good christian virtues' such as loyalty, fealty, friendship, faith (Gandalf has immense faith that Frodo will succeed even against impossible odds) etc.

Quite true.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but what I think metropolis meant was that no existing religion actually believes in Eru and the Valar.

Or, God and His servants, the angels. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Although it is true that the virtues you list are certainly not exclusive to Christians nor indeed to religious people.

That’s true...but the world would be a virtual Mordor without the influence that Christianity exclusively had (and has!) on the modern world. Modern Science was begat primarily by Christians. Modern medicine was begun and developed largely by Christians. (The pagans of the era saw no other need than to bring the sick to their false god temples, which only magnified and spread the illness) Most charitable establishments and organizations are Christian-based too. The Red Cross (hello, it's a cross), The Salvation Army (Salvation doesn’t exist without a savior), the YMCA (What's that C stand for again?), Habitat for Humanity, the list goes on. But I digress.

What I meant was why do christians try to hijack the story when they have their own "story". I sometimes get the feeling that christians will use any excuse to get their message across! I've seen it here and on other tolkien forums. At the end of the day this is a set of stories about a fictional place (ME) I don't believe tolkien set out to preach christian values through it. Maybe christians should use this as their bible, after all its a better story and it actually has greater depth in places!

You make a good point, but I disagree utterly that Christians have “hijacked” the story. With all due respect, that is an absurd claim. Tolkien was a believer, albeit a Catholic (not that it was a bad thing...some Catholics accept Jesus as Savior, some don’t). His Catholicism, if you ask me, shines through the clearest in the worshipful mentioning of Elbereth Gilthoniel. (Mother Mary?)

While some may tend to over-interpret in order to "get their message across," for the most part Christian Tolkien fans (particularly on this site) recognize the work as secular in its intentions.

It is also inevitable that a board as large and diverse as this is going to gather many Christians who enjoy the series. Because those in the Christian community who enjoy Tolkien make up a large part of the Lord of the Rings fanship.

LotR is for everyone who wants to read it.

Quite true indeed. No one says “Look, if you’re not a Christian, you can’t like Lord of the Rings.” It’s just that for Christians, there are far greater principles and entertainment to be gleaned.

I think Christianity is a beautiful religion. I still tell those who ask me that I do believe in Jesus Christ, I just don't follow his teachings.

Since this isn’t a theological discussion, but about how Christianity pertains to Tolkien, I’ll say two things to you. First, PM me. Second is a quote from C.S. Lewis...or at least an idea summed up by the guy. Jesus Christ is either a dead liar, a dead lunatic, or the living Son of God.

. I knew a family who refused to read LotR because the occult or something used it. It's all a matter of interpretation, really

While respecting the decision of some families, I disagree and tend to think it is merely due to ignorance. I nearly guarantee that you show me a family that disagrees with Lord of the Rings, and I’ll show you the same family is against Harry Potter. The problem is, they fail to see the Christian values and underlying concepts ingrained in Lord of the Rings. Whereas Harry is a wizard who uses manipulation of earthly elements for his own desires (whether they be good or bad I cannot say; I have not seen Harry ever since Gandalf kicked his butt), but Gandalf’s wizardry is a gift from God, really.

I think we should just enjoy the LotR regardless of our religions. There are many virtues that are in the book which are universal yet the book is also full of myth and imagination. I think, we should appreciate Tolkien's work for what it is, not debating or upholding beliefs what religions that can be best associated with LotR.

I agree and disagree. This isn’t a debating board (unfortunately, [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ), so we should not attempt to hash religious differences out. (At least on here...anyone who wants to talk/challenge me, please PM me!) But I don’t think there’s any question which religion lines up the best with Tolkien’s works. It may not be extremely clear merely by reading the trilogy...but try some of Tolkien’s essays. This is a quote from Tolkien: God is the God of Men, of Angels...and of Elves. (Paraphrased, but quite accurate)

For more on this subject, I suggest checking out these books. I am currently reading The Gospel According to Tolkien, by the way, so it’s interesting that this topic should come up.

The Gospel According to Tolkien, Walking With Frodo, Sanctifying Myth: Understanding Middle-Earth, Following Gandalf.