Tol-in-Guarhoth CIX - Ten Year Anniversary Game: Dead Thread

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

***!?
Also do Mac count as a dead European?

[the phantom]

Legate- in summary....

Nog and I insistently suspect one another. We assume Agan is the Hunter. Green is PREY.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Legate- in summary....

Nog and I insistently suspect one another. We assume Agan is the Hunter. Green is PREY.

Well that was generally what I wanted. Just some basic bare facts, I am probably going to read the whole thread, but totally not at this hour... hmm, or maybe I will. Anywayss...

Still a bit of a surprise, though not entirely unexpected, except... *scratches head*

Well. What now?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Legate- in summary....

Nog and I insistently suspect one another. We assume Agan is the Hunter. Green is PREY.

Well summarised.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

If I may ask...

what did I get plus marks for?

I give pluses whenever I find myself nodding and saying, "Yes, they have the measure of it and aren't flavoring the opinion with careful slant."

You received pluses because you kept being right. You weren't painting situations inaccurately, or trying to make them look scarier than they were, or hedging your bets, or trying to discredit ideas by discrediting a source... You didn't take a calculated approach to my plan proposal, but rather you saw precisely its potential and thought that others were downright suspicious for claiming we couldn't do it, or shouldn't attempt it, or that it was oppressive, you didn't try to over-simplify or complicate it etc. A Wolf would have a reason to be spooked and poke holes in a foreign idea that had the potential to hurt them down the road, but an innocent would simply see potential and decide that the opportunity should be grasped.

You didn't even feel that you had to trust me to employ the plan- you were willing to separate guilt from sound tactics, which showed a pure desire to win. Those threatened by the plan could try to weasel out of it by associating it with ME, and thus "We can't just trust Phantom therefore somehow that means something negative about the plan" where as you did not make that error. I also noted your reluctance to lynch Agan, which seemed sensible given her possible Gifted status.

Originally Posted by Mac

I think a wolf kind of expects to be a highly likely Night pick, and confirming a wolf is among the best information we can get. So I think a werewolf would rather not be picked, and not the other way around.

I was trying to say there that even the most obviously guilty Wolf would have a reason to bait themselves as a Night pick. In this situation it would apply to you, if say you "revealed" now as the Ranger who had been biding his time to see what the false Seer was attempting. You would know such a reveal would be suspect but perhaps you do just well enough that we simply have to check you. OR it could apply to Rikae if she feels the real Seer is still alive on the thread and will probably reveal today (and possibly reveal her as a Wolf), thus she can insist she is the real one and we feel pressured to check her. Whereas if she wouldn't have revealed we might've been more likely to simply trust the Living Thread reveal and write her off as a WW and check someone more interesting. (Basically my statement was less immediately applicable and more hypothetical.)

[the phantom]

By the way, I note that both here and in the Living Thread, Kuru clearly lists Legate as the final member of the dead.

...and Legate of Amon Lanc

Why is Legate here?!!!!!!!

His narration in this thread in particular seems to paint Legate as the odd one. Is anyone willing to interpret that as "Legate was NOT one of the two WW kills"?

Because that certainly would change our pack analysis.

[Macalaure]

Possible.

I wondered why he put "how ironic" behind Rikae in both narrations. Could be just because of our relationship, of course.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by the phantom

By the way, I note that both here and in the Living Thread, Kuru clearly lists Legate as the final member of the dead.


His narration in this thread in particular seems to paint Legate as the odd one. Is anyone willing to interpret that as "Legate was NOT one of the two WW kills"?

Because that certainly would change our pack analysis.

I feel obliged to chime in here to say that you should not place that interpretation on it. Kills are always posted in the narrations in the order they either happen in the Living Thread or the names are turned in by the killers.

It is sequence of events, nothing more.

I just wrote it the way I did because it amused me.

Originally Posted by Mac

I wondered why he put ironic behind Rikae in both narrations.

I put ironic in because you were turned in to me one after the other. That too I found amusing.

[Macalaure]

In other words, if we want to figure out who was killed by what, we're on our own.

[the phantom]

If Legate wasn't Wolf-killed, then that means he wasn't a quality Seer suspect, despite the fact that he kept gunning for Green and she was then brought down by the Hunter. The Wolf packs would have no way of knowing that Green wasn't a Wolf- they would assume she was in the other pack. Thus why would they doubt his Seership? Only if he listed one or more of them as innocent- Nerwen, Lommy, Mith were his innocents.

Assuming Rikae is telling the truth, Lommy is cleared, which leaves either-
(1) Nerwen in pack A and Mith in pack B
(2) Legate in pack A and Nerwen and/or Mith in pack B

Is this line of reasoning too ungrounded to explore further? I mean, maybe the pack(s) wasn't even targeting the Seer. Why would they target Rikae? If Lottie was a member? Why would they target Mac? Once again, Lottie would've had cause, but she obviously can't be in both packs. Was it Mac himself that did away with Rikae?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Kuru

I feel obliged to chime in here to say that you should not place that interpretation on it. Kills are always posted in the narrations in the order they either happen in the Living Thread or the names are turned in by the killers.

Darn it!! That completely ruins any possibility of getting a clear handle on the things if we don't even know who was Wolf killed. I mean, that's the ONE thing the Living and Dead were counting on for forming suspicions- the fact that the Wolves would be purposefully killing people each night. But tonight we don't even know who they killed.

[Rikae]

Considering that I'm dead...

It may be that my case against Lottie hit the mark. I actually thought Firefoot was the worse of the two at the time... yeah. *grumble*

Anyway I've been looking for Mac-pack in the living thread, and there isn't a whole lot to go on.

Pardon me if the following is sloppy... it's the Riesling.

Post 121, morm votes for Mac, early vote, " something in a number of the posts felt off"

131, Mac says of morm, "mormegil - I was originally going to put him under the radar, until I realized I was about to put morm under the radar. Can't be, especially since he did post a few times."
Says nothing about getting voted.

Trusts me, Firefoot, Nilp, Legate, Greenie
Nilp or Legate would be in a cozy place there among all those innocents.

Calls Agan, Rune & morm slightly suspicious.

post 168, Mac feels better about morm for the points he raises about Nog
Mac 188 "I don't really suspect morm anymore now, and I'd rather not vote for Rune. Nogrod made his way up my suspect list, but I feel quite unconfident about it.
Unless something unexpected happens, I will vote for Aganzir. "

Mac 281
"There's something odd going on in #247,248,250:
First, Sally suggests Rune might have been a wolf killed by the other wolves. I'm not following her reasoning really. Also, I don't think that's their priority yet.
Then Morm is all over it for this reason, which is ok, but also because she's "trying to make a case against a dead man". How else are we going to figure something out at this point before we get any evidence back from the dead?
Then Lottie is all over morm for being "weirdly defensive", making him highly suspicious. I get criticizing him, but that's too quick over too little.

...aaand then Greenie mentions the exact same thing, just more eloquently. Well, actually not the exact same thing, since I'm raising half an eyebrow at morm, too.
"

285, morm on Mac:
"Yes, and I've felt odd about Mac since early yesterday, hence my vote. Something feels very off. It seems a very forced attempt at being normal. Too much effort into it if that makes sense. To quote Frodo:

"Well, if he was one of the enemy, he would look fairer and...well, feel fouler, if you see what I mean."

He seems opposite to me, he's attempting to look fair but feels foul.
"
In 312, Mac's saying morm looks fine. He's suspecting "wolf-on-wolf people" (wrt Lommy/Agan): me, Form, nilp, Firefoot.

then he says never mind when I correct him (327).

350 morm votes for Mac again

352 Firefoot suspects Mac

378 Mac trusts me, Lommy, Lalaith, Eomer, Mith
puts morm, Nilp & Legate in "leaning innocent" (with McCaber, Boro, Greenie)
Suspects Agan, Sally, Lottie, Firefoot

"Reason tells me the case against Agan is clear, but my gut hesitates. I don't like any of the present alternatives, though, especially since one of those alternatives is me. "

384 Mac votes Agan
386 Nilp "And my vote make it six for

++Aganzir"

Edit: X'd with phantom

EDIT: my following post #253 at 12:05

Originally Posted by Rikae

Oh, and also:

I false-revealed as the seer in my first game and have tried my best to do so in every game since, regardless of role. I'm surprised no one seems to have noticed that yet.

I'm an ordo trying to troll for reactions. Well, either that, or someone whose role-pm got lost in the twisting nether. But enough of that nonsense, I don't want to waste too much precious time.

So... rejoice! The seer is still alive!

And personally, I'm more inclined to trust Mac now - which sucks. All the dead look innocentish to me (except maybe Legate). I just hope the real seer (and Boro looks like a reasonable candidate) has chosen to dream of some quiet ones instead of chatty now-corpses.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anyway I've been looking for Mac-pack in the living thread, and there isn't a whole lot to go on.

I wonder why that might be.

edit: oh, you....

[Thinlómien]

Why am I not surprised about all the sport talk early on? Also very amused about the phantom flirting with the ladies and Nog trying to steal the thunder by confessing his love to the phantom.

The Dead Europeans meme is killing me. Hats off to Kath for being the last European standing, btw.

I can't say how happy I am that the living seemed to have figured out what Nerwen was doing before the dead did. Take that, you smug corpses!

Also I understand why Agan keeps saying Legate made her laugh way too much. Napoleon, Julius Caesar etc? Crazy.

I'm kind of disappointed the dead thread is actually like 85% serious talk. Most of the craziness was in the last couple of Days and Nights. You guys totally mislead me.

PS. It's too funny to think of Legate as Han Solo and Mac as C3PO. (I'm pretty sure there is a - somewhere in that droid's name but I can't fathom where. C-3PO??)

PPS. Dear kawaii Nilp, I learnt that word all by myself, ages ago. And I'm baffled that you consider it weird that I know it. Isn't it a fairly normal word? Anyway, very descriptive of you.

[mormegil]

I can speak briefly on who we killed and why.

We debated for a long time on the first night trying to get some idea of a potential seer. We knew early on with two dreams this would be our biggest threat, we had no idea or Boro-Wolf Hunter at the moment. We also didn't want to target wolves too much at night knowing it would help if we had somebody to look to lynch during the days. We decided to kill phantom, not because he looked over seerish but because we didn't see anybody that did and he was trying to organize the village. On a personal note it was nice to thin the thread a little too

Night 2 we went for Rikae. We felt it would implicate others and we thought she seemed a bit off with the comment of somebody suspect me. It was a thought that she could be the seer, but again Nerwen was hiding so well we didn't see her.

Night 3 we went for Nerwen, assuming there would be ranger protection but not daring take the risk.

Night 4 we finished the job and yes I claim that our pack got the kill . Form, I believe, also decided to go for Nerwen.

Overall it was challenging being a wolf in this game because you knew that you didn't want to kill one lover without the other known but the fear of ranger protection on one of the lovers was challenging too. We didn't really want to kill the ranger too early because super ranger would come back. With two dreams the seer was a deadly threat and she lived up to the potential *glares at Nerwen* then add on a crazed wolf killing dragon to boot. It made it very difficult.

Well done all, it was very enjoyable to play again.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Great game everyone. Many excellent performances. Particular congratulations to Kuru for modding with such flair.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Overall it was challenging being a wolf in this game because you knew that you didn't want to kill one lover without the other known but the fear of ranger protection on one of the lovers was challenging too.

My thought on the Lovers from a wolf perspective was that if I was a wolf I would eventually need to kill one Lover for the express purpose of them coming back to try and confirm whether any of the other pack had been killed yet or not.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

My thought on the Lovers from a wolf perspective was that if I was a wolf I would eventually need to kill one Lover for the express purpose of them coming back to try and confirm whether any of the other pack had been killed yet or not.

As our numbers thinned and Nerwen revealed that Mac and Lottie were wolves it became less imperative. Also we didn't want the ordos to know how many innocents there were it kept them guessing. Less information was better.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by mormegil

As our numbers thinned and Nerwen revealed that Mac and Lottie were wolves it became less imperative. Also we didn't want the ordos to know how many innocents there were it kept them guessing. Less information was better.

True.

I will get a final (maybe) commentary post up this evening.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Can't add much more to what has been already said by everyone and what I am sure we all feel - what a game! What a comeback of WW! What a play from everyone!

Maybe I would like to point out the fact that it was great to play in such numbers and in a game that allowed people to stay around after death, because this way every single one of us had the chance to make ourselves memorable part of the game in one way or another. As in, in a normal game, if you are for example lynched in the very beginning, your participation can easily pass without notice (unless your lynch involved a particular fuss). But here everyone had their moment in the sun... or in the dark.

So many thanks to our esteemed Mod for the idea(s) and for making it work, cheers especially to the Seer and to the Itchy-Killer for splendid play, similarly to Lovers for making it through (all with the coming back from the dead stuff), high praise to Wolves because they also did a great job, to all my fellow Dead for both hilarious and deeply grimly serious times on the Dead thread, and to all other innocents contributing in one way or another.

May this be a game long remembered.

[Lalaith]

because I took a gamble with killing Lalaith (had no confirmation she was a wolf, I just thought she looked like she knew too much information about wolves and I was all-in believing Nerwen was the seer

You were terrifying, Boro!
Actually none of the stuff I posted was wolf-knowledge, it was all guesswork. I was careful to play as an ordo (which in terms of trying to identify other wolves, I actually was. I was just as keen to identify rival wolves as any ordo would be!)
The only thing I actually knew was about Cabbie and Morm and I just studiously avoided talking about them at all.
But what really hurt, even more than my untimely death at the hands of Chrysophylax, was Firefoot saying I was the type "to follow orders". That comment would cause a ROFL or two among my friends and family, I can tell you...

It was a gloriously baffling game. Thank you Kuru, and thank you my dearest partners in Fanginess....

[Lalaith]

Oh and I think it was me who suggested killing Rikae. I am really, really scared of her WW capabilities, you see...I haven't forgotten Duelling Wizards 2, when I lost the game by making the mistake of letting her live...

[McCaber]

And I killed Lommy when I was alone, because she was both confirmed innocent and unlikely to be protected.

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

But what really hurt, even more than my untimely death at the hands of Chrysophylax, was Firefoot saying I was the type "to follow orders". That comment would cause a ROFL or two among my friends and family, I can tell you...

I guess I need to get to know you better? Sorry, no offense meant. If you want a compliment to go with it, I never saw you as a wolf, so great job acting ordinary.

[Lalaith]

Sorry, no offense meant.

Oh, none taken, fear not.