The effect of the Great Rings upon Men

[Ivriniel]

....and

...cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

This seems to me a significant moment in the narrative commentary about the 'what' of a Nazgul. Something Sauron 'did' via the Rings --a spell-- that somehow --knit-- that vestige of formerly mortal flesh --to will of might of mind--. I wonder now: Tolkien often spoke of Mind holding the Body of Men to Life. Numenoreans could yield their life at old age--with and act of will, or cling until death ended their body. This 'will' facility was explicitly noted in other races, especially the Elves and Elven Mind fortifying body through 'the other world' (Glorfindel being in 'two worlds' at the confrontation of the Ringwraiths).

This implies Sauronic Mind/Will forged connection or extension of Maia Mind to form the variation on flesh that was a Nazgul. Sauronic Mind also destroyed "feasted" on mortal living flesh as the process of transformation occurred.

On another train of thought, the formidable size of the Witch King was noted by Tolkien. Mass this seemed to imply. The flesh was unseen by eye of sight of mortal mind. It could be seen by Elf and by eye of sight of mortal wearing The One. The reason for the invisibility, I would assume, was the same as implied by what Tolkien wrote of Frodo in Elrond's healing room. Some 'fading' of flesh after the Ringwraith attack. Elrond didn't put Frodo completely together again. Some transformation of his flesh had occurred.

The Rings of Power (the Nine made them Invisible when used) is what seems a reasonable conclusion to draw. And each use removes a little bit more of the mortal fibre as the Mind of the User strengthens in synchronisation with Sauraon's Might of Mind. Then at a critical threshold, Sauron rocks in very closely and blasts away the remaining capacity to reverse the process and enslaves.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

....and

...cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

This seems to me a significant moment in the narrative commentary about the 'what' of a Nazgul. Something Sauron 'did' via the Rings --a spell-- that somehow --knit-- that vestige of formerly mortal flesh --to will of might of mind--. I wonder now: Tolkien often spoke of Mind holding the Body of Men to Life. Numenoreans could yield their life at old age--with and act of will, or cling until death ended their body. This 'will' facility was explicitly noted in other races, especially the Elves and Elven Mind fortifying body through 'the other world' (Glorfindel being in 'two worlds' at the confrontation of the Ringwraiths).

I read the quote differently. My will is knit to my sinews for instance, and I will my sinews or limbs to move about, to do stuff. In me, at least, these things are not knit together with a literal "spell" but perhaps a metaphorical one. This was Merry's strike, and in my opinion the Witch King could no longer will his body to defend against Eowyn's strike. Merry called her name, Eowyn tottered or struggled up (hardly words to describe swift action in my opinion), but the Nazgul-lord did not even try to parry the blow.

I believe the Nine had invisible bodies, and although Tolkien doesn't draw a lot of attention to it, I note that when dealing with the Dead who followed Aragorn, fear was enough. In other words, it was said (through an internal character at least) that it was not known if their weapons would bite -- that, to me, is significant. They are ghosts, so even Tolkien will "acknowledge" the question in the minds of readers: do their weapons even work?

The Nine are not questioned about this however. They are like enough to "wraiths" or ghosts -- being invisible and fear instilling -- like enough to be called wraiths. Their robes give shape to the otherwise unseen...

... "nothingness" in that sense (not excluding other senses however), in my opinion; but they are not actual nothing when disrobed, and their weapons bite.

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Galin

I read the quote differently. My will is knit to my sinews for instance, and I will my sinews or limbs to move about, to do stuff. In me, at least, these things are not knit together with a literal "spell" but perhaps a metaphorical one.

I wondered a lot about why Tolkien pursued his ideas about human Will and its place to living and life over the years. I've imagined that his wartime experiences and having seen how minds change in wartime situations would have had something to do with that. Having seen his dying fellows and his sense of the passage ofnlife/spirit, and his inferences about the Black Breath seem to speak about 'Will to live' and, possibly depression, when will to live falters.

I had an experience of unstoppable outpouring of grief once where I sensed the Will abandoning my body or of it not being sustaining of my body, for a short while as I wondered if I was just going to simply drop dead as my heart stopped or something. Have you ever heard of those couples where one dies of cancer and then the second, for example, shortly afterwards. Stories about twins and those moments where one feels the illness, or passage of the other. There are some mysteries of will that Tolkien, I think, sought to explore in the mythology, and variations of those with the Nazgul and the Sauronic side of the world of the living.

......cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

In adding in how Eowyn's strike, done by an ordinary blade completed the annihilation, I sensed something important in the quote,

"Doubtless the Orcs despoiled them, but feared to keep the knives, knowing them for what they are: work of Westernesse, wound about with spells for the bane of Mordor."

and

"So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will."

Seems that the Men of the Westernesse had a certain realm of magical/lore capacity (e.g. Orthanc stone untouched by Ent). The blade opened a vulnerability, and one seemingly both at the local wound site, and also systemic, affecting will and body --knitting-- or at the global level. A physical blow to body, by a magical blade--a small wound--that severed will to body-undead, globally.

Though struck behind the knee, from the cut, it must have been systemic about 'Will-undead sinew'.

[Ivriniel]

Eowyn struck somewhere else--with a non-magical weapon (significant. Would her blade have done anything, without Merry's first blow. And what of the numbing of their arms after striking him? Some 'energy' or something was removed from their bodies?

And her gender, being a woman, was also somehow significant. I've always thought that. Some artefact of Sauronic influence was implicated by way of lessening or something because of her gender. Perhaps female stature and bearing had some implication for the Nazgul's history that evoked--shame--or --doubt-- or even --fear-- or possibly even 'thank friggin god, am I sick of one eye or what. I'm dunnin--yay--get on with it wench'. I imagine the Nazgul in life perpetrated sexual depravities and violences, such as taking concubines after conquests. This was part of Tolkien's mythology, as we saw with Maeglin who was subverted in the end by Melkor this way in lust for Turgon's daughter. But, on another point, I do not understand the prophesy that Glorfindel spoke of about the Witchking.

So, for Eowyn, and the Nazgul 'wyrd', I wonder then if the severing of Spell binding Will to body together with the doubt of sudden fear and shame exposed a fundamental rift in metaphysical dimensions allowing a normal blade to finish him off. Perhaps enough of 'him' came back for a short moment, and -- pow -- he copped it.

This theme of shame and critical strikes during battle, felling the other--if anyone remembers, I think it was Fingon singing in Tol Sirion in contest with Sauron, and during the Song, the critical vulnerability achieved to weaken Fingon by the verse about the Kinslaying. That was when Fingon buckled--when Sauron weakened Fingon with the naming of the shame of the kinslaying. Fingon's Will (there's that word again) faltered because of shame.

[Galin]

About the connection of will to sinew, Ivriniel, I still think the meaning is more mundane than you are proposing. A deer "caught in the headlights" has had its will temporarily disconnected from its sinews (the two are no longer knit together), for example, and this for me explains why the Nazgul-lord does nothing to save himself from Eowyn (when he arguably had time to at least try and defend himself), as well as Tolkien's less poetic explanation in a letter, that if one of the Nine had been struck similarly at Weathertop, the wraith would have fallen down and the blade destroyed.

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

Eowyn struck somewhere else--with a non-magical weapon (significant. Would her blade have done anything, without Merry's first blow.

I think Eowyn's blade would have killed the Witch-king without Merry's strike. For me, Merry only made the wraith vulnerable to Eowyn in a tactical sense -- he could not will his body to avoid or parry her blow. Otherwise (it seems to me), if the Nazgul-lord could only be stopped by such blades, and was invulnerable to other weapons, he becomes too powerful.

Sauron himself could be bodily slain, so could Morgoth. Limiting the Nazgul to a specific weapon makes him too strong in my opinion (he already has other advantages in battle), an arguable "plot hole" even.

My reading has been "no other blade" as in: no other blade as it was employed here. In other words, even if a mightier hand had struck this particular wound (the reader already knows the particular circumstances described) with another blade, the wound would not have been so bitter. Why? Because this blade didn't need a mightier hand, nor to be struck in a more lerthal spot, to end up being bitter, as the Nazgul-lord was ultimately brought down by it, given the nature of the dagger and what happened next.

Or more clearly perhaps: I believe the message here is, even if Imrahil or Boromir had wounded the wraith in the same way, any other blade however, would have resulted in a dead Eowyn and a wounded Nazgul-lord.

Making the Witch-king invulnerable to regular weapons is problematic in my opinion. Admittedly Tolkien does seem to suggest this earlier when Gandalf tells Legolas that his arrows could not have slain one of the Nine -- but it is also Gandalf who, earlier in the story, explains that the flood cannot kill the wraiths, because they stand or fall with Sauron...

... which I take to mean that they can be what we would call "killed", or hurt, but only ultimately slain if Sauron is undone. The felling of the Witch-king was a great deed within the context of this battle, but I think he might have returned at some future point; a theory made moot by the destruction of the One however.

So I think the wraiths would be "invulnerable" in this sense, but not in the sense that they could ride into a given battle and fear no regular sword, mace or spear. The latter seems too powerful in a practical sense, and to my mind makes the coincidence of Merry having the right kind of sword "too" coincidental.

It's already coincidental enough to have Merry bearing a sword that helped so greatly, but to have been bearing the only weapon that could either kill the wraith or make it vulnerable to regular weapons, is even a step further I think.

[Belegorn]

I've got to check on the Nazgûl, but based on some instances in which the Witch-king is mentioned I doubt he is invulnerable as Galin pointed out. Take for example his fear of certain Dúnedain. Why would he fear them if he were invulnerable to most/all weapons and they were not?

"Boromir was a great captain and even the Witch-king feared him." [Appendix A: The Stewards]

I don't know of any Maiar who incarnated who were invulnerable. Even Morgoth bore wounds, limped on an injured foot, and feared to go out and fight Fingolfin. Sauron was hurt, and lost a finger, Balrogs were hurt such as Gothmog getting impaled by a helmet, dragons were hurt, Saruman was hurt and got his neck slit.

[Ivriniel]

hi there Belegorn, Findegil and Galin

@Galin

I like the "deer in headlights" metaphor, and the other one upstream somewhere.

The Deer, tho, I'd argue is 'tightly' knit to sinew in fear. Rigid in fact. I've, of a night time, often watched lights approaching in the pitch, and where there is no sound, they are quite captivating. There's the sense of not knowing what it means and which way to move as there is the sense of both 'nothing' of body and yet 'growing light'.

I wonder if it 'tunes' us into the whole 'light at the end of the tunnel' journey, life, death and all those who died for a short while who speak of light and so on? Just a thought.

@all

......cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

It does seem as tho there is reference to the effect-metaphysical of the ...breaking... the initial influence of the Ring Spell, both in its line of 'sight'/'link' from The One to any/all of The Nine. And the Numenorean Blade fashioned in Arnor "...long..." by some Smith of Lore, who "wove about" or "wound about" (I forget which, see upstream), a ...spell... to allow the blade an effect. I assume a counter-spell of some nature? Could a Man of War, c.f. Hobbit or Woman have dealt the blow-equivalent? Was there something about Hobbit-ish or Woman-ish nature that augmented the Blade's 'purpose'. Tolkien did speak of Blades of Power having purpose. Beleg's blade, for example, forged of Meteorite.

I've never been quite sure about the nature of Numenorean blades. On the one hand, less 'something' than Sting (recall Shelob's web and Sting v Numenor to cut them). Yet, Tolkien states that 'no other blade' (upon the Nazgul) would have dealt a blow so bitter.

As always with Tolkien there's always an '...iest' that has a rival. Galadriel 'mightiest' then someone 'fairest' - ha? Luthien v Galadriel. Or s/he who wrought the '--iest' this or that

[Findegil]

Surely there he was not including the Three. Why would rings made by Elves for Elves have the power to extend the wearer's lifespan?

Why would a ring made by Sauron exclusivly for his own use have the power to extend the wearer's lifespan?
But it had this power for sure, as we see in the case of Gollum.

Originally Posted by Letter 131 to Milton Waldman, 1951:

The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the preservation or slowing of decay (i.e. change viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – that is more or less an Elvish motive.

This is porbabaly the key to understand the effects. With this the prolongation of mortal lifespan is a given ability of all 19 Rings. We also see a hint how it functions: the Rings gives the mind the possibility to preserve the desired or loved body it does dwell in. An ability that the elves had by thier nature, but mortals had not and dwraves could not even get with the help of the rings.
In that way the wraithification of the bears seems to be very similar to elvish fading. If that is 'true' than it might be that a Ringwraith could have choosen to abondan his life and with that escape from Sauron. But as all the Rings seem to have a great adictive potential and clinging to life longer than seems reasonable is an repeating motive in Middle-Earth mrotals this becomes near to impossible once the ring has worked long enough on the mind of its bearer.

Originally Posted by Letter 131 to Milton Waldman, 1951:

The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility.

Here we come to the differnces between the Rings. Sauron did influence the nine and the seven much more than the three. So it seems that the invisibility was an ability that Sauron wished to be included. When the elves worked on their own using only the knowledge that they had learned from Sauron and not his direct help, they could eliminat the invisibility effect.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[William Cloud Hicklin]

A thought about "binding his unseen sinews to his will"....

Compare the passage, not many pages before, where Tolkien describes the effect of the mere presence of the Nazgul on men, the ultimate psychological weapon:

...letting their weapons fall from nerveless hands while into their minds a blackness came, and they thought no more of war, but only of hiding and of crawling, and of death.

One of my favorite passages, the voice of the Somme veteran who had witnessed shell-shock personally.

But it strikes me now that in an ironic way, the ancient smith of Arnor had managed to turn the tables, giving the Shriekers a taste of their own Black Breath, as it were.

[Faramir Jones]

Tolkien's second son Michael, who served in WW2, suffered from shell-shock as a result.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Yes, but I don't think we're talking about exactly the same thing. Michael unquestionably suffered from what today we call PTSD- but that is, as it says, post-trauma. What Tolkien briefly described in the Siege of Gondor was something else, the paralysis of will that is the trauma, as it were, where naked fear overcomes all discipline, training or courage, the point where a man is said to "break." It happens and has happened on all battlefields in all ages, but under the shellstorms of the Western Front probably more than most.